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  • WA threatening NCAA?

    check out about 10 minutes of Sam Seemes address at the USTFCCCA Convention, starting at about the 54:00 mark


    Last edited by gh; 01-28-2023, 04:43 PM.

  • #2
    I'm sure the NCAA is quaking in it's boots...
    https://twitter.com/walnuthillstrak

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    • #3
      What rules does the NCAA have (or not have) that are at variance with WA rules? It seems that they are arrogant if they think they should have competitions under a different rule book but have marks set in those competitions qualify for WA events. I guess the serious athletes will adapt to this situation and concentrate their efforts in competitions that do confirm with those WA rules.

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      • #4
        It's disingenuous of Sam Seemes not to tell the conference that this issue has probably arisen a) because of the NCAA's refusal to follow the accepted drug testing protocols within the sport of athletics and b) because of the non-enforcement of the shoe rules (not certain of that second one ... does the NCAA limit and check the stack height of shoes?)

        If what he says between 54:09 and 54:26 is true then the top NCAA athletes would need to run in "pro meets" to try and get standards for USATF Championships and standards/rankings for World Championships. I guess meetings such as the Stanford Invitational and Payton Jordan would be considered pro meets but do they fall into the category he describes from 54:44 ? They're not part of the Continental Tour therefore they're not meets "organised by World Athletics" but are they USATF-sanctioned?

        I guess the idea from WA & USATF's side might be that NCAA athletes will protest to the NCAA and try and force NCAA to adopt both the WADA anti-doping code and the WA shoe rules?
        Last edited by LuckySpikes; 12-13-2022, 11:46 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by guru View Post
          I'm sure the NCAA is quaking in it's boots...
          Yes I'm sure they are scared to death. The NCAA will be open about drug tests about the same time as they ban football.
          Last edited by Conor Dary; 12-14-2022, 01:39 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nztrackfan View Post
            What rules does the NCAA have (or not have) that are at variance with WA rules? It seems that they are arrogant if they think they should have competitions under a different rule book but have marks set in those competitions qualify for WA events. I guess the serious athletes will adapt to this situation and concentrate their efforts in competitions that do confirm with those WA rules.
            There are lots of nitpicky things that World Athletics has not made an issue of, but could. How much time an athlete has to complete a jump or throw. In the pole vault, NCAA allows warmup jumps to occur if the athlete has waited over an hour to enter the competition, World Athletics does not. I am sure there are a million more that I am not aware of.

            Shoe height is a bigger issue. It is a lot of work for USATF people to have to watch videos of college races and try to figure out if the shoes used are legal for World Athletics purposes.

            If this was _just_ about rules and event sanctions, those are issues that could be overcome. If an event is run under a more restrictive set of rules (World Athletics), the organization with the less restrictive rules (NCAA) should have no problem accepting those marks as valid.

            Drug testing is the issue that cannot be overcome easily because that gets into issues of federal law (FERPA) and goes way beyond our sport.

            NCAA T&F could agree to allow USADA/WADA testers at their events, to give them priority over NCAA testing (maybe), but if World Athletics decides to pick a bone with the fact that failed drug tests are kept secret (AS THEY SHOULD IMO), there is no simple solution to that problem.

            Imagine if USADA had spent their energy trying to resolve this issue at the congressional level, instead of legislation to chase after foreign athletes.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post

              Yes I'm sure they are scared to death. The NCAA will be open about drug tests about ths same time as they ban football.
              It seems like there should be some way to work out a deal where college athletes in Olympic sports who are in the various testing pools have to sign a waiver to have their NCAA/school drug testing results shared with USADA/WADA, while everyone else is left alone.

              You still have the potential to miss bannable offenses in slightly lower level elite athletes, but at least part of the loophole that allows a world class athlete to fail a drug test and not get appropriately sanctioned would be closed.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LuckySpikes View Post
                It's disingenuous of Sam Seemes not to tell the conference that this issue has probably arisen a) because of the NCAA's refusal to follow the accepted drug testing protocols within the sport of athletics .....
                you're making the assumption that those who control NCAA track in the ultimate sense have even heard of WA. Track coaches have nothing to do with testing rules & regulations. Our sport is viewed largely as a nuisance, not a power broker of any kind.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by gh View Post

                  you're making the assumption that those who control NCAA track in the ultimate sense have even heard of WA. Track coaches have nothing to do with testing rules & regulations. Our sport is viewed largely as a nuisance, not a power broker of any kind.
                  OK, maybe. However, I would refuse to believe that they don't know about USADA and WADA (relating to one of the issues I identified.)

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                  • #10
                    This is part of WA wanting to separate itself from anything other than professional sport. Can see that side of the argument, as it's critical to the future of T&F. NCAA wants to have it's cake and eat it too. Live by their own rules and still participate in the professional end of the sport at the same time. Sorry, those days are long gone. Been told personally that Sam is not permitted to engage in politics of the sport as CEO. Watching that speech and others, it's nothing but an abject lie. His entire job is the politics of the sport, unless it makes him or the USTFCCCA look myopic, then they come up with BS to cover themselves.

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                    • #11
                      The NCAA doesn't care about Track and Field. It's not a big revenue sport. If WA wants to be distance itself from the NCAA unless they change their approach/rules, I'm guessing they would only do it if it didn't cost anything or create scheduling difficulties. If the sport suffers at the NCAA level as a result, I doubt they would care. More and more high school greats seem to be turning pro early anyway. Maybe that model (like the one in Europe) is ultimately the direction T&F will go in the US.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by steve View Post
                        The NCAA doesn't care about Track and Field. It's not a big revenue sport. If WA wants to be distance itself from the NCAA unless they change their approach/rules, I'm guessing they would only do it if it didn't cost anything or create scheduling difficulties. If the sport suffers at the NCAA level as a result, I doubt they would care. More and more high school greats seem to be turning pro early anyway. Maybe that model (like the one in Europe) is ultimately the direction T&F will go in the US.
                        I don't think there are enough athletes who would be able to earn enough as a pro to go pro without the scholarship benefits of the NCAA. I doubt the structure changes.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MJR View Post
                          This is part of WA wanting to separate itself from anything other than professional sport. Can see that side of the argument, as it's critical to the future of T&F. NCAA wants to have it's cake and eat it too. Live by their own rules and still participate in the professional end of the sport at the same time.
                          The NCAA cares zero about the professional end of the sport. Some of the college coaches care, their bosses don't. Sam doesn't work for the NCAA, he works for the coaches.

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                          • #14
                            I wrote a Twitter thread on this, part 1 is diving in to some of the history here: https://twitter.com/polevaultpower/s...90279342690305

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                            • #15
                              Here is Part 2. This is a lot bigger than the NCAA and World Athletics, every meet director in every country needs to be aware of these changes: https://twitter.com/polevaultpower/s...03492511772673

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