WA threatening NCAA?

[ATK]

Just looking through, these are the only US indoor meets remaining on the World Athletics Calendar:

Jan 21st - ATL Hawkeye Pro Classic
Jan 27th - LILAC Grand Prix
Jan 27th - BU John Thomas Terrier Classic
Jan 28th - Dr Sander Invitational
Feb 4th - BU Bruce Lehane Scarlet and White Invite
Feb 4th - New Balance Indoor Grand Prix
Feb 10th - BU David Hemery Valentine Invite
Feb 11th - Millrose Games
Feb 16th - USA Indoor Champs
Mar 10 - NCAA Indoors Champs

So nothing else counts I guess.

[Dave]

I read Becca’s fine discussion. More and more, I think T&F is trying to become irrelevant.

[LuckySpikes]

At this point, with the "World Rankings competition" system that WA have introduced, it's incumbent upon meeting directors to fill in the form and stump up the cash to get that WA "certification". I would think there's also a role for USATF to be getting in contact with university sporting directors and chivvying them along to do this for the benefit of their athletes. However, having read plenty about the leadership at USATF I wouldn't hold out too much hope for that happening!

[Dave]

At this point, with the "World Rankings competition" system that WA have introduced, it's incumbent upon meeting directors to fill in the form and stump up the cash to get that WA "certification". I would think there's also a role for USATF to be getting in contact with university sporting directors and chivvying them along to do this for the benefit of their athletes. However, having read plenty about the leadership at USATF I wouldn't hold out too much hope for that happening!

How much does the certification cost? Is it a one and done nit for a facility?

[LuckySpikes]

How much does the certification cost? Is it a one and done nit for a facility?

I think it's per meeting not arena/facility though I haven't read all the document linked below.

Regarding the fee, the document at https://assets.aws.worldathletics.or...c6ee496553.pdf says in section 6,

"An application fee will be charged to cover the administration cost."

"The fee will be separately determined for each country and adjusted according to each country’s local purchasing power based on the average income."

I'm sure I saw 25 USD mentioned somewhere (the fee for US meetings?) but can't remember where I saw it.

[El Toro]

Just from a results tracking & statistics side, If World Athletics doesn't want the meets to count towards rankings, can't they just list them as 0 points and move on? But having them listed seems pretty important regardless.

This is the most annoying thing to me.

All it's going to do is undermine the IAAF data as the "source of truth", well, at least post-2001 truth, and just create a further load of discrepancies between them and other list publishers. It's not as if paying a sanction fee magically improves the reliability of the performance data or compliance with IAAF rules.

[Dave]

It is really frustrating since WA is no longer the source of truth.

However, if it only costs $25 to register a meet, that doesn’t seem too onerous.

[polevaultpower]

I want to stress that World Athletics is requiring that everything around this go through the Federations. Meets on US soil HAVE to go through USATF. You can apply to add your meets directly to the World Athletics calendar, but the federation has to approve it, and as far as I can tell, USATF has chosen not to take that path.

No official word yet, but it appears USATF is choosing to require meets to get a USATF sanction and indicate during that process that they want to be added, then the National Office will add them.

No info given to directors of already sanctioned meets how they can get added.

This is a problem for college meet directors on multiple levels. The time and money involved are not that big of a deal for larger programs, but there are legal issues around USATF's insurance requirements that are going to hold things up for some schools.

I expect we'll see more of the major college meets added over the next few weeks, but it will probably be a mess all year.

I also heard a rumor that only marks from USATF sanctioned meets will be accepted for USA outdoors, I have not had the time or energy to confirm or deny that one yet.

[MJR]

I also heard a rumor that only marks from USATF sanctioned meets will be accepted for USA outdoors, I have not had the time or energy to confirm or deny that one yet.

Once the NCAA gets over being butt-hurt on this, I see it as an overall positive for the sport. Maybe (?) both organizations can finally stop being stupid about each other, rulebooks, events contested, championships, sanctioning, and finally do what is best for the sport, coaches, athletes and fans. Ok, we all know it won't happen...

[polevaultpower]

Once the NCAA gets over being butt-hurt on this, I see it as an overall positive for the sport. Maybe (?) both organizations can finally stop being stupid about each other, rulebooks, events contested, championships, sanctioning, and finally do what is best for the sport, coaches, athletes and fans. Ok, we all know it won't happen...

The problem is that none of this is leading to rule books or anything else being in sync, it just ends up looking like a cash grab by USATF instead of an opportunity to move toward getting everyone on the same page.

[Dave]

I want to stress that World Athletics is requiring that everything around this go through the Federations. Meets on US soil HAVE to go through USATF. You can apply to add your meets directly to the World Athletics calendar, but the federation has to approve it, and as far as I can tell, USATF has chosen not to take that path.

No official word yet, but it appears USATF is choosing to require meets to get a USATF sanction and indicate during that process that they want to be added, then the National Office will add them.

No info given to directors of already sanctioned meets how they can get added.

This is a problem for college meet directors on multiple levels. The time and money involved are not that big of a deal for larger programs, but there are legal issues around USATF's insurance requirements that are going to hold things up for some schools.

I expect we'll see more of the major college meets added over the next few weeks, but it will probably be a mess all year.

I also heard a rumor that only marks from USATF sanctioned meets will be accepted for USA outdoors, I have not had the time or energy to confirm or deny that one yet.

how is this affecting people outside the US? While I understand the NCAA is unique in the world, how are other countries dealing with this?

[ATK]

This is terrible for athletes who just want to compete and qualify. NCAA athletes, "semi pro" and pro athletes, and international athletes who are either in the NCAA or simply live and train in the USA.

Do national records not count? Like is Ismael Kone not recognized as the Cote D'Ivoire national record holder in the 60m dash?

This really seems like backwards thinking how this is being handled.

[polevaultpower]

how is this affecting people outside the US? While I understand the NCAA is unique in the world, how are other countries dealing with this?

Most other countries are having no problem with this. Getting the meets added to the WA calendar is not hard if your federation approves you to do it, or if a competent federation is handling it.

[Trickstat]

This is terrible for athletes who just want to compete and qualify. NCAA athletes, "semi pro" and pro athletes, and international athletes who are either in the NCAA or simply live and train in the USA.

Do national records not count? Like is Ismael Kone not recognized as the Cote D'Ivoire national record holder in the 60m dash?

This really seems like backwards thinking how this is being handled.

National records are the business of national federations not WA.

[ATK]

National records are the business of national federations not WA.

I was being a bit facetious with the National record question. (though only kind of...in Budapest would an athlete be introduced as National Record holder if that time was set at a meet not on the calendar?😏)

My main issue is simply with statistical tracking of results as well as athletes (who cant easily travel) getting qualifying marks for various championship meets.