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  • Another One Bites The Dust: Stanford GP

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... I8TDS1.DTL

  • #2
    Lost in the notes of that column:

    "Olympic champion Justin Gatlin is not satisfied with his gold medal from Athens. He wants the world record in the 100 meters -- 9.77 seconds held by Jamaica's Asafa Powell. "If Asafa can do it, I can do it,'' Gatlin said of his stated goal of 9.75."

    Yeah, and if JG can do it, then S Crawford can do it, and if SC can do it, then Leonard Scott can do it, and if LS can do it . . .

    In the TOE world, that's called a 'logical fallacy'.

    [not that it wouldn't be wicked cool if JG DID do it!]

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by tafnut
      Lost in the notes of that column:

      "Olympic champion Justin Gatlin is not satisfied with his gold medal from Athens. He wants the world record in the 100 meters -- 9.77 seconds held by Jamaica's Asafa Powell. "If Asafa can do it, I can do it,'' Gatlin said of his stated goal of 9.75."

      Yeah, and if JG can do it, then S Crawford can do it, and if SC can do it, then Leonard Scott can do it, and if LS can do it . . .

      In the TOE world, that's called a 'logical fallacy'.
      I don't see the fallacy at all. The logic of JG's statement is based on the fact that he has beaten Powell in six of the nine 100m races they've been in together (including the last three). Crawford cannot say the same of his encounters with JG and Scott has only rarely beaten either Crawford or Gatlin. It is therefore entirely plausible for JG to think that he can run faster than Powell, whereas would not be logical for SC or LS to make the same kind of claim. (And as far as I know, they have not made any such claim.)

      I think you'd better stick to English and not mess around with logic.

      Comment


      • #4
        Also of interest in the notes:

        "Putting on the Ritz: Olympian Dathan Ritzenhein will take a crack at the American record in the 10,000 at the Payton Jordan Cardinal meet. That's where Keflezighi set the current mark of 27:13.98 in 2001. Ritzenhein's personal best is 27:38.50, also set at the Cardinal meet, in 2004."

        I find that surprising in light of this month's "Status Quo" column noting that he dropped of the World Cross team with walking pneumonia.
        "Run fast and keep turning left."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tandfman
          I think you'd better stick to English and not mess around with logic.
          I beg to differ. It is exactly BECAUSE Gatlin HAS beaten Powell and NOT run faster, that puts his time-potential in question. JG has proven to be the 'stronger' competitor by winning in rounds, but the very fact that his PR is 'only' 9.85 puts his top-end potential 'in question'. JG, at the top of his game, is .08 (a millennium in elite sprint times) behind AP. I'm not sure we have yet seen AP at peak, becuase he keeps getting injured as he approaches it. JG, on the other hand, has raced the best and beaten them, yet topped out at 9.85.

          [I wish to be commended for keeping a straight face in the foregoing - it's pretty obvious AP AND JG can and probably will run faster in the next two three summers - but in my heart of hearts I believe AP has a better top-end (let's say 9.75-ish), but JG will continue to beat him in the big ones (in the 9.80 vicinity).]

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by trackstar
            Also of interest in the notes:

            "Putting on the Ritz: Olympian Dathan Ritzenhein will take a crack at the American record in the 10,000 at the Payton Jordan Cardinal meet. That's where Keflezighi set the current mark of 27:13.98 in 2001. Ritzenhein's personal best is 27:38.50, also set at the Cardinal meet, in 2004."

            I find that surprising in light of this month's "Status Quo" column noting that he dropped of the World Cross team with walking pneumonia.
            Dathan will not be racing the Cardinal 10,000 with the goal in mind of breaking the AR. That was the original goal months ago, before his setback during cross. He's still ready to run fast, but the race is not being set up for a time in the range of 27:13.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tafnut
              Originally posted by tandfman
              I think you'd better stick to English and not mess around with logic.
              I beg to differ. It is exactly BECAUSE Gatlin HAS beaten Powell and NOT run faster, that puts his time-potential in question. JG has proven to be the 'stronger' competitor by winning in rounds, but the very fact that his PR is 'only' 9.85 puts his top-end potential 'in question'. JG, at the top of his game, is .08 (a millennium in elite sprint times) behind AP. I'm not sure we have yet seen AP at peak, becuase he keeps getting injured as he approaches it. JG, on the other hand, has raced the best and beaten them, yet topped out at 9.85.

              [I wish to be commended for keeping a straight face in the foregoing - it's pretty obvious AP AND JG can and probably will run faster in the next two three summers - but in my heart of hearts I believe AP has a better top-end (let's say 9.75-ish), but JG will continue to beat him in the big ones (in the 9.80 vicinity).]
              taf

              we've been thru this before enough times - go back & check the RTs for gatlin's og win & safa's wr - there is a significant difference in those & then when you adjust for the wind, +0.6 to +1.6m/s, there is no difference at all in their basic, wind-adjusted, RT adjusted times

              if you don't like adjustments, then believe what you will

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by eldrick
                taf

                we've been thru this before enough times - go back & check the RTs for gatlin's og win & safa's wr - there is a significant difference in those & then when you adjust for the wind, +0.6 to +1.6m/s, there is no difference at all in their basic, wind-adjusted, RT adjusted times

                if you don't like adjustments, then believe what you will
                Adjustments (and all your math formula interpolations, extrapolations, predictions, palm-reading progostications, etc. are great fun as fan fodder (alliteration!) - I'm glad you do them, but . . . "let be be finale of seem", which means the reality of what they have actually run, speaks much more loudly than what they shoulda/oughta/coulda run. I would love JG to break the WR, and I have no problem with AP beating JG fair and square at the WC/OG, but that's not the reality we live in right now. Logical extrapolation (which was my point to begin with) is to see AP break his own WR, and then JG beats him in The Big Meet, in a time about .1 off the WR. That's MY logic and I'm stickin' to it!

                Comment


                • #9
                  if your not a fan of adjustments, let me ask you something:

                  take top 3 all-time: 9.77 safa, 9.78 tim ( let's include him for now as tracks are contemporary ( bj too far back in time/tracks ) ), mo 9.79

                  bring them all together in that form to one mythical race, say athens, hot weather & nice wind of +1.0m/s

                  what is your finishing order & times ? :shock: ... :wink:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eldrick
                    if your not a fan of adjustments, let me ask you something:

                    take top 3 all-time: 9.77 safa, 9.78 tim ( let's include him for now as tracks are contemporary ( bj too far back in time/tracks ) ), mo 9.79

                    bring them all together in that form to one mythical race, say athens, hot weather & nice wind of +1.0m/s

                    what is your finishing order & times ? :shock: ... :wink:
                    Not worth the exercise without the #1 sprinter in there. My prediction:

                    Mo 9.76
                    AP 9.77
                    TM 9.85












                    JG 9.76 (9.755 vs 9.757 edge over a top-level Mo)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I thought Bob Hayes' initials were BH, not Mo

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gh
                        I thought Bob Hayes' initials were BH, not Mo
                        Hey, there is only one bh!

                        And the greatest, of course, is CL!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gh
                          I thought Bob Hayes' initials were BH, not Mo
                          Egg-zackly! Bob Hayes in 9.69.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bad hammy
                            Hey, there is only one bh!
                            Actually, there seem to be quite a few of us.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [quote=Bob H]
                              Originally posted by "bad hammy":32fmta4v
                              Hey, there is only one bh!
                              Actually, there seem to be quite a few of us.[/quote:32fmta4v]
                              I know - I'm waiting for Ben to chime in.

                              Comment

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