Multi-events 2023

[DET59]

From rhe NCAA page

Originally posted by olorin View Post
The amazing Anna Hall with two PBs in her opener.
LJ 6.53 (6.42 outdoor & 6.02 indoor)
60h 8.18 with 0.22 reaction time (8.25).

Looks like turning pro was good for Anna Hall with two big PR's.... Can't wait to see her throws improve as well.

[eman2001]

From rhe NCAA page

Originally posted by olorin View Post
The amazing Anna Hall with two PBs in her opener.
LJ 6.53 (6.42 outdoor & 6.02 indoor)
60h 8.18 with 0.22 reaction time (8.25).

Looks like turning pro was good for Anna Hall with two big PR's.... Can't wait to see her throws improve as well.

Well you won't have to wait long as Anna is entered in the shot put along with the high jump tomorrow. As for today it looked like Anna was really tentative at the start as she has changed a few things, like taking 7 steps instead of 8 to the first hurdle, she had the same medium start but had her knee up instead of down also. Didn't see any jumps yet but if you go to Anna's IG page you'll see a lot of improvement there as well.

I'm sure everyone is aware of the tumultuous start to last year that Anna Hall had, breaking her foot at OT's and changing schools and coaches, but it was also adapting to a totally different coaching philosophy which she couldn't totally adjust to until this year as she was rehabbing her broken foot at the start of the last school year.

I LOL at the 6.02 meter indoor long jump mark that has held up for so long it was one of two marks that still held up from her high school years in Colorado, glad she was finally able to best that mark!!

[DET59]

Well you won't have to wait long as Anna is entered in the shot put along with the high jump tomorrow. As for today it looked like Anna was really tentative at the start as she has changed a few things, like taking 7 steps instead of 8 to the first hurdle, she had the same medium start but had her knee up instead of down also.

Thanks for the insight. It's easy to forget the "pro" multieventer Anna Hall is only 21 and is still years away from her peak... Without the pressures of being a team performer, I think 23 will be a big transition year that will move her from being a podium contender to being a possible gold medal contender for 23-28, WC's and OG's.

On both the mens and womens sides, 2023-28 is going to be a time for some exciting young multi-eventers to rise to new levels.

[CD203]

Thanks for the insight. It's easy to forget the "pro" multieventer Anna Hall is only 21 and is still years away from her peak... Without the pressures of being a team performer, I think 23 will be a big transition year that will move her from being a podium contender to being a possible gold medal contender for 23-28, WC's and OG's.

On both the mens and womens sides, 2023-28 is going to be a time for some exciting young multi-eventers to rise to new levels.

Agreed. If she does have a great 2023, my feeling is that she'll be the only woman potentially standing in the way of a historic Olympic three peat for Naffi Thiam

[DET59]

Agreed. If she does have a great 2023, my feeling is that she'll be the only woman potentially standing in the way of a historic Olympic three peat for Naffi Thiam

Interesting when you compare PBs, Thiam's throw are about 300+ points better than Hall's, Hall's PB in the other 5 events are about 250 better than Thiam's.... (disclaimer- Adding up PBs does not equal a heptathlon score)


I don't think Thiam is going to get any faster by 2024, but Hall basically needs to improve and become a consistent thrower to make it a great competition for gold. Don't count out Sulek, and Vetter is only a year older than Thiam.

[eman2001]

Anna must of seen our comments got out of the high jump early at 1.78 and decided to do another pb by over a foot in the shot, 13.84/45'5"!

[olorin]

While the discussion of Anna Hall and the Heptathlon WR is (obviously) intriguing, the more realistic and immediate goal of her is the relatively weak Pentathlon WR (5013). So what does her season opener suggests about her chances to become a world record holder?
In order to try to answer this question I looked at Anna Hall’s performances in Clemson and compared them to her season opener in the last three years. Luckily, Hall competed in Clemson is each of the previous four additions in 3-4 individual events, so we can compare oranges to oranges (in the years that she competed in only three events, I added the missing mark from her next competition).

The table below presents her Clemson marks in the last four years:

Year	60h	HJ	SP	LJ
2020	8.59	1.84	12.83	5.59
2021	8.41	1.86	12.25	5.73
2022	8.41	1.70	12.31	5.97
2023	8.18	1.78	13.84	6.53

Obviously with three PBs this year performances show large improvement compared with yesteryear's. But what does it tell us about her chances to break the Pentathlon WR?
The next (and last) table try to answer this question. This table presents the total points in her season opener, the sum of SBs (season best) by the end of the season (including the 800) and her Pentathlon score

Year	Points opener	Sum of SBs	Pentathlon SB
2020	3468	4357	4202
2021	3532	4849	4590
2022	3414	4853	4618
2023	3841

As we can see Hall is better by roughly 300-400 points compared with 2021 & 2022. In both years she scored ~4,600 points. Based on the above, she should score ~4950, obliterate the AR (4805) and with a good competition can break the WR.
My own two cents - if Hall will complete two Pentathlons this season, a WR is coming your way.

[DET59]

While the discussion of Anna Hall and the Heptathlon WR is (obviously) intriguing, the more realistic and immediate goal of her is the relatively weak Pentathlon WR (5013). So what does her season opener suggests about her chances to become a world record holder?
In order to try to answer this question I looked at Anna Hall’s performances in Clemson and compared them to her season opener in the last three years. Luckily, Hall competed in Clemson is each of the previous four additions in 3-4 individual events, so we can compare oranges to oranges (in the years that she competed in only three events, I added the missing mark from her next competition).

The table below presents her Clemson marks in the last four years:

Year	60h	HJ	SP	LJ
2020	8.59	1.84	12.83	5.59
2021	8.41	1.86	12.25	5.73
2022	8.41	1.70	12.31	5.97
2023	8.18	1.78	13.84	6.53

Obviously with three PBs this year performances show large improvement compared with yesteryear's. But what does it tell us about her chances to break the Pentathlon WR?
The next (and last) table try to answer this question. This table presents the total points in her season opener, the sum of SBs (season best) by the end of the season (including the 800) and her Pentathlon score

Year	Points opener	Sum of SBs	Pentathlon SB
2020	3468	4357	4202
2021	3532	4849	4590
2022	3414	4853	4618
2023	3841

As we can see Hall is better by roughly 300-400 points compared with 2021 & 2022. In both years she scored ~4,600 points. Based on the above, she should score ~4950, obliterate the AR (4805) and with a good competition can break the WR.
My own two cents - if Hall will complete two Pentathlons this season, a WR is coming your way.

Great analysis... not having to deal with indoor/outdoor NCAA seasons will also increase her chances to score both a high pent and maybe an early season heptathlon. Unlike some multi-eventers, Anna doesn't shy away from competition.

What/where will be the biggest "pentathlon stage" this indoor season for a pro? I know Vidts scored 4929 last year.... any chance for a head to head match up?

[El Toro]

As we can see Hall is better by roughly 300-400 points compared with 2021 & 2022. In both years she scored ~4,600 points. Based on the above, she should score ~4950, obliterate the AR (4805) and with a good competition can break the WR.
My own two cents - if Hall will complete two Pentathlons this season, a WR is coming your way.

I would be a little bit more cautious - there's a difference between setting PBs and actually increasing usual performances. I'd be interested in how much lag there is (if any) in improving her average performances after she sets an event PB.

[DET59]

I would be a little bit more cautious - there's a difference between setting PBs and actually increasing usual performances. I'd be interested in how much lag there is (if any) in improving her average performances after she sets an event PB.

Davidokun has a great 'multis-predictor' ability using PBs, past/recent performances and some secret sauce.... I'd be curious what David would predict for a pentathlon for AH. He's method is not overly aggressive and is really awesome to follow in big meet multis....

[ZazaShoya]

Jana Koščak (b.2006) started her season yesterday with a new PB (and Croatian u18 record) in the HJ : 1.90

6106 last year in the u18 heptathlon, she really should threaten the WR this summer, but her marks on the senior implements are already very decent (13.86 on the hurdles, 44.38 with the 600g javelin as a u16, no record yet with the 4kg shot). She's due to compete in Tallinn in early February along with Adriana Sułek, Saga Vanninen or Niamh Emerson, back from injuries ?

[eman2001]

I would be a little bit more cautious - there's a difference between setting PBs and actually increasing usual performances. I'd be interested in how much lag there is (if any) in improving her average performances after she sets an event PB.

I understand what you're saying here but there is some context to Anna's 1st day that isn't being said which makes her performances in the hurdles and long jump even more spectacular.

The Long Jump rounds started at 12:00 pm with the 1st heat of the women's 60 meter hurdles scheduled to run at 12:25. That means she probably had to warm up for each event at basically the same time then had to check out of the long jump to run the hurdles and then come back and check into the long jump, she also took 3 more jumps after racing the hurdles and then ran the finals of the 60 meter hurdles.

In my experience, two of the most technical events in track and field are the hurdles and the long jump, you need to be on at that moment to not screw it up. You can see Anna was clearly showing the effects of bouncing back and forth between them as her start suffered in the finals of the 60 hurdles and she fouled twice in the finals of the long jump. Granted in a pent or a heptathlon you won't have finals of either event but you also won't have to bounce back and forth between them at the same time either!

One last thing; the second day showed some effects with her high jump not being above 1.80 meters but coming back and throwing the shot a foot further shows just how focused and strong she is becoming and I would also speculate to say that the training load probably isn't completely off either!

[DET59]

I understand what you're saying here but there is some context to Anna's 1st day that isn't being said which makes her performances in the hurdles and long jump even more spectacular.

The Long Jump rounds started at 12:00 pm with the 1st heat of the women's 60 meter hurdles scheduled to run at 12:25. That means she probably had to warm up for each event at basically the same time then had to check out of the long jump to run the hurdles and then come back and check into the long jump, she also took 3 more jumps after racing the hurdles and then ran the finals of the 60 meter hurdles.

In my experience, two of the most technical events in track and field are the hurdles and the long jump, you need to be on at that moment to not screw it up. You can see Anna was clearly showing the effects of bouncing back and forth between them as her start suffered in the finals of the 60 hurdles and she fouled twice in the finals of the long jump. Granted in a pent or a heptathlon you won't have finals of either event but you also won't have to bounce back and forth between them at the same time either!

One last thing; the second day showed some effects with her high jump not being above 1.80 meters but coming back and throwing the shot a foot further shows just how focused and strong she is becoming and I would also speculate to say that the training load probably isn't completely off either!

Very interesting observations eman...... agree, the high jump is much easier on the first day/second event of a pent/hep than having to come back a day after 6 jumps/2 hurdle heats. Also, for all multi-eventers who have spent a big part of fall winter buildings a strength/endurance base, having mediocre early indoor/early season high jump results is not unusual. I'll be curious, with the USATF Indoor Championships multi-events starting only a month from today, if AH will be focusing (or even competing) on getting a high score in Albuquerque at 5,300 ft elevation.

[El Toro]

I understand what you're saying here but there is some context to Anna's 1st day that isn't being said which makes her performances in the hurdles and long jump even more spectacular.

Thanks for the extra info, eman2001.

If we had this level of information on all multi-eventers training and competition, we'd be able to build better prediction models. Sadly, our chances of that will never get much above zero.

[Revenant]

There is a reason why Belova's 1992 WR stood for so long, and has only been broken twice since (and only just): it's more difficult than people realise.

Firstly, the 5 events in one day is tough, and the programme can make a massive difference in terms of the spacing of events. Then the actual performances needed are tough. In her 92 WR, other than the SP, Belova's other 4 marks were excellent (8.2/ 1.9/ 6.6/ 2:10). How many women can jump both 1.93 & 6.67 on the same day and run a 2:10? When Dobrynska set the now WR she did a very decent 1.84 and was also very near 6.6 with 6.57. Her SP of 16.51 off-set the points she lost in the HJ. And even Dobrynska, not known as a great 800m runner, ran an excellent 2:11 (faster than the 800m in KJT's 2nd world ranked mark, and faster than the 800's in Kluft's best pentathlons.) Vidt's marks from the WIC last season were superb (8.15/ 1.83/ 14.03/ 6.60/ 2:08.81....but she was still nearly 100 pts off the WR.

Hall certainly has the ability to break the WR...but so did Kluft, Ennis, KJT etc. It's not easy!