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  • Geb's Cramping Problems

    Story on the front page:

    http://sport.independent.co.uk/general/ ... 359802.ece

    Haven't heard anyone say anything about this yet. Thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Geb's Cramping Problems

    Originally posted by bekeselassie
    Story on the front page:

    http://sport.independent.co.uk/general/ ... 359802.ece

    Haven't heard anyone say anything about this yet. Thoughts?
    Originally posted by The Indepedent
    Gebrselassie, Ethiopia's multiple Olympic and world champion, found the cold cramping his calfs and hamstrings shortly after the halfway point as he struggled to adapt his habitual tippy-toe running style to the slippery surface.
    Running economy destroyed by a slippery surface, this seems quite plausible to me based on what malmo had to say in another thread. If geb was cramping from the half way point, as the article claims, I have to wonder why he bothered to finish the race. It seems a little pointless to kill ones legs further just to gut it out. I think he would have been better served to pull put and live to run another day.

    Either that, or he needs to eat more bananas.

    Comment


    • #3
      Just remembered some people don't like us to post articles and run without giving our own opinions. :wink:

      I am worried that this could be an ongoing problem. Geb's had cramping issues in the past. Also, what does he mean by learning more about the marathon, if the cramps were due to cold and rain?

      What does the rain have to do with it? And what can he do about this? How does he "learn" to deal with cramping problems that probably were not a result of dehydration?

      I hope I don't sound skeptical. Geb doesn't make excuses. He just gives the facts. I'm just not grasping some of what's happening here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Geb's Cramping Problems

        Originally posted by Daisy
        If geb was cramping from the half way point, as the article claims, I have to wonder why he bothered to finish the race. It seems a little pointless to kill ones legs further just to gut it out. I think he would have been better served to pull put and live to run another day.
        Pressure from promoters or fans? Remember he pulled out of London last year. I'm just throwing it out there. :?

        Comment


        • #5
          have you ever run on a wet pavement with racing flats?

          if you haven't let me tell you that it really destroys your form, and in the case of geb's stride that must have been fatal.
          El mismo Runnerdave de siempre

          Comment


          • #6
            Not in racing flats, no. I of course often ran on wet roads, but it was with regular running shoes. And naturally, I wasn't exactly running 4:46 miles.

            But the fact that several of you are corroborating the article's claims does interest me. I never realized that was the case.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bekeselassie
              Not in racing flats, no. I of course often ran on wet roads, but it was with regular running shoes. And naturally, I wasn't exactly running 4:46 miles.

              But the fact that several of you are corroborating the article's claims does interest me. I never realized that was the case.
              But all the runners ran in the same conditions and if Geb, the greatest runner who ever lived, has a unique problem with 26 miles of wet roads, maybe this is not his "BEST" event.
              phsstt!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SQUACKEE
                Originally posted by bekeselassie
                Not in racing flats, no. I of course often ran on wet roads, but it was with regular running shoes. And naturally, I wasn't exactly running 4:46 miles.

                But the fact that several of you are corroborating the article's claims does interest me. I never realized that was the case.
                But all the runners ran in the same conditions and if Geb, the greatest runner who ever lived, has a unique problem with 26 miles of wet roads, maybe this is not his "BEST" event.
                Don't forget that the end of the London marathon is run on cobblestones. At least it used to be.

                Having said that, your argument still holds. Maybe he is not the best riunner under all conditions. I can still seeing him smoking a world class field in the future.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SQUACKEE
                  Originally posted by bekeselassie
                  Not in racing flats, no. I of course often ran on wet roads, but it was with regular running shoes. And naturally, I wasn't exactly running 4:46 miles.

                  But the fact that several of you are corroborating the article's claims does interest me. I never realized that was the case.
                  But all the runners ran in the same conditions and if Geb, the greatest runner who ever lived, has a unique problem with 26 miles of wet roads, maybe this is not his "BEST" event.
                  On the track, Geb lands on the forefoot, rather than the heel. This helps turnover, stride length, and has certain other mechanical advantages at distances shorter than the marathon. It gives him that flowing stand-tall, gazelle-like stride that makes him "poetry in motion" on the track. But also led to his achilles problems.

                  That his fore-foot strking might give him problems in the marathon was something he knew when he took it on. See http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/20 ... y26681.asp.

                  Seems like they are still trying to figure out how to make Geb's achilles and tendons hold up for 42 k.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What do youz guys think about Bekele's stride for future marathon running. It looks pretty marathony to me.
                    phsstt!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's my thing.

                      I enjoy the discussions on biomechanics and physiology and such. I have a degree in Exercise and Sports Science, so I certainly dabbled in all that stuff and enjoyed it. However, my area of specialty is what they labeled "fitness specialist", so I didn't specialize in that stuff. That's why I let you smarter guys lead the way in those discussions (not to mention I'm out of date on any developments over the last dozen years). My point is I respect the science of it all and find it interesting (to a point).

                      But I have to say, it seems to me that despite the "science" of it all, we're always looking to justify why an athlete is supposed to be good or supposed to be bad at a certain distance. Then we change our minds depending on their performance. First Michael Johnson wasn't supposed to be as fast as he was. Then we found reasons why he actually had the perfect form for the 400. Tergat's long legs are not conducive to marathon running. Then his long legs are perfect for marathoning. Geb is the greatest track runner in history, and he's gonna be a great marathoner and maybe set a WR. Then we wonder if his stride isn't made for marathoning. Nevermind that he's already recorded a 2:06:35 and a 2:06:20. The list could go on and on.

                      This stride talk about Geb is interesting, but is he really running on his heels at 4:46 pace?

                      In conclusion, my anwer to Squack's question is that I would never bet against Bekele if he decides to run marathons. We'll all speculate about his form and biomechanics and history of injuries until he runs incredibly fast and wins a major. Then we'll change our minds accordingly, and use our sciences to back it up.

                      Is Bekele's form conducive to great marathoning? Let me just say one thing: 26:freakin17! :shock:

                      This post hurt. 8)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bekeselassie
                        Here's my thing.

                        I enjoy the discussions on biomechanics and physiology and such. I have a degree in Exercise and Sports Science, so I certainly dabbled in all that stuff and enjoyed it. However, my area of specialty is what they labeled "fitness specialist", so I didn't specialize in that stuff. That's why I let you smarter guys lead the way in those discussions (not to mention I'm out of date on any developments over the last dozen years). My point is I respect the science of it all and find it interesting (to a point).

                        But I have to say, it seems to me that despite the "science" of it all, we're always looking to justify why an athlete is supposed to be good or supposed to be bad at a certain distance. Then we change our minds depending on their performance. First Michael Johnson wasn't supposed to be as fast as he was. Then we found reasons why he actually had the perfect form for the 400. Tergat's long legs are not conducive to marathon running. Then his long legs are perfect for marathoning. Geb is the greatest track runner in history, and he's gonna be a great marathoner and maybe set a WR. Then we wonder if his stride isn't made for marathoning. Nevermind that he's already recorded a 2:06:35 and a 2:06:20. The list could go on and on.

                        This stride talk about Geb is interesting, but is he really running on his heels at 4:46 pace?

                        In conclusion, my anwer to Squack's question is that I would never bet against Bekele if he decides to run marathons. We'll all speculate about his form and biomechanics and history of injuries until he runs incredibly fast and wins a major. Then we'll change our minds accordingly, and use our sciences to back it up.

                        Is Bekele's form conducive to great marathoning? Let me just say one thing: 26:freakin17! :shock:

                        This post hurt. 8)
                        Good post, but if it hurts maybe you should go back to crap? :P

                        P.S. I seem to remember a pretty good marathoner ...named ahh.. boston billy... i think, and he landing on his forefoot. :?
                        phsstt!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree w bekeselassie's comments (above). But the question of running mechanics or "form" does seem to get lost in the ...um... shuffle sometimes, probably because it is hard to quantify or measure, and probably because the logic of looking at speed over shorter distances and extending that is compelling. Still, it seems that "form" or mechanics does matter.

                          Here's what Sean Hartnett wrote in TFN May 2002 about Tergat, Geb, and Khannouchi as they neared the end of the London Marathon 02:

                          "Watching these three great runners go toe-to-toe it was apparent that as energy, emotional, and muscular systems played out, the final miles were sorted out by basic running mechanics.
                          Late in the race, the impeccable running form of Tergat and Geb became more upright both in arm carriage and stride trajectory. Hang-time in marathoning, like hurdling, equals decelaration.
                          Khannouchi's mechanical advantage is that he is able to maintain the tempo of his cross-chested arm swing, and he has a knack for literally bearing down, maintaining a low center of gravity..."

                          (Hartnett also noted of Tergat, "we probably still haven't seen his A game.")

                          I think Hartnett saw something important, even if it is hard to factor in. Certain kinds of mechanics do seem to be preferable in the marathon. For lack of better terms, it seems that some runners are more "ballistic" and some are more "rolling." And some are hard to describe. If I can take a detour from world-class to, let's call it "neighborhood class", I think of a comparison between myself and a friend I trained with for several years. We had very similar PR's at mile, 5k, 10k, 1/2 marathon, but at the marathon he was always several minutes faster than me. We also trained in similar ways. Part of it, I think, was that he has a very efficient, low to the ground, "rolling" kind of stride, whereas I tended to "bounce" more. My pace really tended to deteriorate in the late stages. Also, I was always more beat up after these events, while he seemed to recover more quickly. He just didn't seem to be as pounded by the distance.

                          On the other hand, Geb has incredibly high standards for excellence. He's run a couple of 2:06s, which counted as tuneups, and a 2:09:05, which counts as a bust, for him. The marathon is also really unpredictable. Given all that, I'll say that Geb will still run a 2:04-2:05. Maybe.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SQUACKEE
                            What do youz guys think about Bekele's stride for future marathon running. It looks pretty marathony to me.
                            I doubt we will see him do a marathon before Beijing but he's a bit stocky which could be a slight downfall if he would step up to the marathon.
                            http://twitter.com/Trackside2011

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nevetsllim
                              Originally posted by SQUACKEE
                              What do youz guys think about Bekele's stride for future marathon running. It looks pretty marathony to me.
                              I doubt we will see him do a marathon before Beijing but he's a bit stocky which could be a slight downfall if he would step up to the marathon.
                              That's the first time I've heard a 5'5" 121 pounder (55kg) called "stocky"!

                              Comment

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