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  • 1500-mile All comers in USA

    Hey guys I was quite surprised to see Ramzi imposing a all comers in the 1500 this week that had been a mere 3.32.

    And the list of best performances for the mile in the IAAF page does not list any mile on american soil.

    Don't you find that pretty bad?

    I mean the US should have been able to set up proper meetings at least to get better results than what Seb Coe used to run more than 20 years ago.

    What do you guys think?

    Thank you
    El mismo Runnerdave de siempre

  • #2
    Re: 1500-mile All comers in USA

    Originally posted by Runnerdave
    What do you guys think?
    It all depends on when the meets are held. As far as I can tell all the big US GP type meets are early in the season. The others are championship meets that are not always conducive to fast times. In general, would you expect fast times at this time of year or later in the season?

    Comment


    • #3
      The big invitationals in the US all take place early in the season. You very rarely get superfast 1500 times in May or early June.
      Out of the 69 sub-3:30 ever run, only one was in May (and that was May 31), the second earliest was June 20.
      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

      Comment


      • #4
        some all-comers stats to digest

        US All-comers 1500m

        3:32.34 Rachid Ramzi BRN Carson 21.05.2006
        3:32.53 Sebastian Coe GBR Los Angeles 11.08.1984
        3:32.88 Noureddine Morceli ALG Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:32.94 Bernard Lagat USA Carson 21.05.2006
        3:33.1 Jim Ryun USA Los Angeles 08.07.1967
        3:33.12 Fermin Cacho ESP Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:33.30 Abdi Bile SOM Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:33.40 Steve Cram GBR Los Angeles 11.08.1984
        3:33.57 William Tanui KEN Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:33.73 Laban Rotich KEN Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:34.13 Bernard Lagat KEN Portland 17.05.2003
        3:34.30 José Manuel Abascal ESP Los Angeles 11.08.1984
        3:34.34 Bernard Lagat USA Carson 22.05.2005
        3:34.35 Driss Maazouzi MAR Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:34.42+ Alan Webb USA Eugene 19.06.2004
        3:34.52 Joseph Chesire KEN Los Angeles 11.08.1984
        3:34.55 John Mayock GBR Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:34.60 Kevin Sullivan CAN Portland 17.05.2003
        3:34.74 Rachid Ramzi BRN Palo Alto 30.05.2005
        3:34.84 Abdelkader Chékhémani FRA Atlanta 01.08.1996
        3:34.87 Uwe Becker FRG Durham 26.06.1982
        3:34.91 Mark Carroll IRL Raleigh 17.06.2000
        3:34.92 Steve Scott USA Knoxville 20.06.1982
        3:34.95+ Bernard Lagat USA Eugene 04.06.2005
        3:34.97 Hudson Santos de Souza BRA Raleigh 17.06.2000

        Comment


        • #5
          US All-comers Mile

          3:49.78i Eamonn Coghlan IRL 1 East Rutherford 27.02.1983
          3:49.89i Bernard Lagat KEN 1 Fayetteville 11.02.2005
          3:49.92 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 1 Eugene 27.05.2001
          3:50.21 Bernard Lagat KEN 1 Eugene 24.05.2003
          3:50.6i Eamonn Coghlan IRL 1 San Diego 20.02.1981
          3:50.81i Noureddine Morceli ALG 1 East Rutherford 08.02.1991
          3:50.85 Alan Webb USA 1 Eugene 19.06.2004
          3:50.89 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 1 Eugene 26.05.2002
          3:50.91 Alex Kipchirchir KEN 1 Eugene 04.06.2005
          3:50.94i Marcus O'Sullivan IRL 1 East Rutherford 13.02.1988
          3:50.95 Daniel Komen KEN 1 Eugene 31.05.1998
          3:51.03 William Chirchir KEN 2 Eugene 26.05.2002
          3:51.1 Jim Ryun USA 1 Bakersfield 23.06.1967
          3:51.20i Ray Flynn IRL 2 East Rutherford 27.02.1983
          3:51.3 Jim Ryun USA 1 Berkeley 17.07.1966
          3:51.33 Rachid Ramzi BRN 2 Eugene 04.06.2005
          3:51.53 Bernard Lagat USA 3 Eugene 04.06.2005
          3:51.66i Marcus O'Sullivan IRL 1 East Rutherford 10.02.1989
          3:51.8i Steve Scott USA 2 San Diego 20.02.1981
          3:51.82 Kevin Sullivan CAN 2 Eugene 27.05.2001
          3:51.84 William Chirchir KEN 1 Eugene 24.06.2000
          3:52.02i Peter Elliott GBR 1 East Rutherford 09.02.1990
          3:52.09 Noah Ngeny KEN 1 Eugene 30.05.1999
          3:52.26 Steve Scott USA 1 Villanova 30.05.1981
          3:52.28i Steve Scott USA 3 East Rutherford 27.02.1983
          3:52.28 David Kibet KEN 1 Eugene 26.05.1996
          3:52.30i Frank O'Mara IRL 1 Fayetteville 25.01.1986
          3:52.37i Eamonn Coghlan IRL 1 East Rutherford 09.02.1985
          3:52.38 Noah Ngeny KEN 2 Eugene 31.05.1998
          3:52.40i Sydney Maree USA 2 East Rutherford 09.02.1985
          3:52.44 Sydney Maree USA 2 Villanova 30.05.1981

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow... Ryun's 1967 run is still 5th on the 1500 list!

            And, of course, the nature of this list is determined by what Powell points up: the big US meets tend to be early-season affairs. Ryun's then-WR reflected a day when top meets, with loaded fields, could happen on US soil in July (i.e., the peak of the season). Those days are long gone...

            Comment


            • #7
              Not that Ryun needed any help in running WR times!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by gh
                Not that Ryun needed any help in running WR times!
                Exactly. However, as hard as it may be for me to say this, Keino deserves a reasonable degree of credit for the '67 1500 record...he pushed those middle two laps along beautifully...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kuha
                  Wow... Ryun's 1967 run is still 5th on the 1500 list!

                  And, of course, the nature of this list is determined by what Powell points up: the big US meets tend to be early-season affairs. Ryun's then-WR reflected a day when top meets, with loaded fields, could happen on US soil in July (i.e., the peak of the season). Those days are long gone...
                  A minor nit; I would guess that he is really sixth if the 3:33.1 is a hand time, although this adjustment is minor compared to the track effect (dirt). Probably the single thing that had the most effect getting me interested in T&F was his almost-record 3:55.3(?) mile the previous year, which I saw live as a birthday present

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Fair enoguh with the early factor, but still that doesn't change the fact that the middle distance events in the US are crap.

                    Has there been any attempt to host a proper event later in the year?

                    Is there any interest in improving the quality of the races there, or should we just assume they are not really important and they just serve as training for the european events?
                    El mismo Runnerdave de siempre

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Runnerdave
                      Fair enoguh with the early factor, but still that doesn't change the fact that the middle distance events in the US are crap.

                      Has there been any attempt to host a proper event later in the year?

                      Is there any interest in improving the quality of the races there, or should we just assume they are not really important and they just serve as training for the european events?
                      Not sure what you mean by "a proper event." The elite circuit is well established, and the US niche is in the early season. July and August are spoken for... It would take huge $$--no make that really HUGE $$$$--to have a mid-summer meet in the US of Grand Prix quality. And, then, of course there's the problem of: where would it be, and who in the world would come?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, huge double-edged sword; not only would an American meet have to find humongous appearance/prize money dollars, it would also have to pay for a hundred or so transatlantic airfares. That alone is an impossible nut to crack.

                        USATF (pre-Masback) dropped the ball hugely by not getting major affairs off the ground post-LA and Atlanta in '84 and '96. (And to a lesser extent I'd fault the Masback adminstration for not taking advantage of the relative proximity after the WC in Edmonton in '01)

                        The response would be that Zürich and the other Euro biggies are usually in that spot, but for a once-in-10-years occasion, I'd like to think that the U.S. has the juice to get that swapped.

                        Meaning that if somebody is successful in linking next time we can expect the monstro-meet in oh, about 2023. :-(

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kuha
                          Not sure what you mean by "a proper event." The elite circuit is well established, and the US niche is in the early season. July and August are spoken for... It would take huge $$--no make that really HUGE $$$$--to have a mid-summer meet in the US of Grand Prix quality. And, then, of course there's the problem of: where would it be, and who in the world would come?
                          I think you can understand what is a proper event means, if you understand what is athletics.

                          But if further explanation is needed, well, a race in which competitors are training or preparing for other events later in the year can't be properly called a race.

                          If you are going to watch an event in which you know nothing exciting is going to happen because is "too early" so what is the point of it?

                          That is what bluntly I called crap, but the concept however you see it, or name it, is exactly the same.

                          I like elite athletics because the best ones in the world perform at their best, and I like to see the training or preparation of most of those athletes but I would not call this sort of thing a "proper event".

                          It is expensive? it is difficult to make?

                          Yes, but that doesn't make any difference in the fact that they are not proper races.

                          As gh points out it may have well to do with the poor management decisions, for sure the drift of an olympic event should have been properly used.

                          And the thing is, again, should this be like this and just accept that in the US what we can expect is preparation events, or could we look forward to the real thing?
                          El mismo Runnerdave de siempre

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Runnerdave
                            But if further explanation is needed, well, a race in which competitors are training or preparing for other events later in the year can't be properly called a race.
                            Tell that to the people that do the rankings each year. It all counts to some degree so i would not call those early races training. But you're right in that they are part of the preparation to peak in the summer. You really wouldn't call races at the PRE classic a proper event just because they are early in the season? Sure, maybe not top flight times and distances, but the competition is real enough.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Daisy
                              You really wouldn't call races at the PRE classic a proper event just because they are early in the season? Sure, maybe not top flight times and distances, but the competition is real enough.
                              Very good point.

                              But, I could accept times in middle distances a bit faster, not this trend of times comparable to what Seb Coe was doing.

                              It is just too bad.

                              And does it really matter to lose there?

                              I mean, you could swing the same argument of "too early in the season" when a top athlete loses there, THAT is the double edged sword.

                              Simply: there is not much at stake in the US meets.

                              And that is pretty dissapointing.
                              El mismo Runnerdave de siempre

                              Comment

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