Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

[vaulter83]

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

I think having a competitive indoor season is what causes a lot of injuries in the spring. I don't think Athletes should be forced to try and run fast in March at NCAAs. Realistically, who cares about the NCAAs except the top schools in the US. You tell a top athlete from another country you're an NCAA Indoor champion and they probably won't care.

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>I proposed the idea of a pilot Oly Dev.
>program for middle distance guys. Get some
>scholarship money from a large sponsor (Nike,
>Adidas etc) and a salary for a very good MIDDLE
>DISTANCE COACH PROVEN ON A WORLD LEVEL.

Uh, like the Farm Team?

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>I think the early spring of 2002 at
>t Michigan shows a bit a a sacrifice. Brannen and
>Webb both injured. How could running 80+/week
>high intensity during the summer when the focus
>is spring track not create a potential for
>injury.

Who runs "80+/week HIGH INTENSITY" during the sumer???? Or are you just assuming again??

>The
>potential for injury by running xc is huge.

As evidenced by WHAT????

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

If CC is such good training for milers, name me 5 top High School milers in the past 10 years who have improved substancially in college while running CC competitively. Hall? Riley? Webb? Stember? Powell?

[MJD]

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>If CC is such good training for milers, name me 5
>top High School milers in the past 10 years who
>have improved substancially in college while
>running CC competitively. Hall? Riley? Webb?
>Stember? Powell?

I can name one. Kevin Sullivan.

[KevinM]

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

How can you think that running 80mpw during the base period is bad for an elite? Do you think there are any top-notch milers not doing this volume? Don't use the krum example, because the guy has 46.x speed and clearly would approach from another angle.

I stand by my hypothesis that it isn't the racing or the distance that negatively affects these guys -- it's the mental toll of racing often.

[MJD]

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>How can you think that running 80mpw during the
>base period is bad for an elite? Do you think
>there are any top-notch milers not doing this
>volume? Don't use the krum example...

80 would be low for Sully during the base period.

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>If CC is such good training for milers, name me 5
>top High School milers in the past 10 years who
>have improved substancially in college while
>running CC competitively. Hall? Riley? Webb?
>Stember? Powell?

Which of those have improved substantially in college while running indoors competitively? Which of those have improved substantially in college while taking a full course-load? Which of those have improved substantially in college while eating food? Which of those have improved substantially in college while breathing air?

I hope you get the point.... just because they don't improve doesn't mean that you can logically assume that any particular activity has caused their downfall without further proof.

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

"just because they don't improve doesn't mean that you can logically assume that any particular activity has caused their downfall without further proof."

What kind of proof would satisfy you?

[gh]

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>We at the United States Track Coaches
>Association think it is a great idea. It would
>allow the half miler/miler type to be able to
>race competitively and it would make a more
>enjoyable race for the fans; i.e. both races
>score and count toward team title. Each team can
>race three or four in both.

Strategy would
>make for very interesting team
>competitions.

Also, most 10k courses are not
>fan friendly. Maybe if we added a short race,
>the fans could actually see something
>happen>>

Leaving aside for a moment the important aspect of whether or not it's good as a training vehicle--particularly since I have zero expertise there--allow me to congratulate the USTCA for actually putting fan-involvement up top as as a criterion. Nice to see that the people who control the collegiate side of things, who for so many years fiddled while the sport (track & field as a whole, not XC) became virtually unwatchable. I applaud this new focus.

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>How can you think that running 80mpw during the
>base period is bad for an elite? Do you think
>there are any top-notch milers not doing this
>volume?

Again, depending on the individual it may not be bad. As you mention Krum approaches it differently as Webb and Brannen should have. However, even if the athlete is the type that can handle 80+ during base should they be running that much base in July-Sept. in preparation for April-June track?

That makes for an awfully long year of hard running.

Timining is everything. If you run base for cross then compete in cross then put in base for track then compete indoors then go into outdoors and back to base its simply too much over 12 mos. That is why most World Class m.d. guys don't do it that way.

You don't have to compete in two sports. Sprinters don't, why should middle distance runners. Guys with REAL md talent (ie. fast guys not 51-52 guys with great endurance) should hone that talent by continuing to work on speed as well as aerobic conditioning with focus on a fast 8/15 forget about the 10k.

Again, I'm not talking about your run of the mill 1:52/3:50 guy (though they shouldn't be obligated to run cc either and not running cc probably wouldn't hurt their track performance either). But, I'm talking about the elites - Krum, Lunn, Brannen, Webb, Stember, Hall, Jennings - guys with significant speed and potential.

Coaches shouldn't be obligated to put these talented individual's careers in jeopardy by encouraging them to train hard to earn cc points.

Whats the point? The picture is bigger than an individual school winning its conference or even NCAA.

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

>The
>potential for injury
>by running xc is huge.

As evidenced by
>WHAT????

The evidence that so many runners are injured while preparing for and running cc. Granted they can also be injured while preparing for and running track but by preparing for and running two seasons instead of one you double your chances of injury.

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

Uh, like the Farm Team?

Well, similiar to the Farm Team but focus on middle distance guys. You should also get them earlier pre college before they are scarred by the collegiate system - fresh out of high school.

And the coach would be PROVEN AT THE WORLD LEVEL. Not that Daniels and Vin don't know what they are doing - but they are also thinking inside the traditional collegiate box. We have to think outside - like the current world greats not the past US greats.

[dl]

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

The Farm Team does focus on middle distance. Jack Daniels and Vin had little to do with the day-to-day coaching of the FT. It's been all Gags the last 2 years.

Re: Short Course NCAA Cross Country?

Cyril schrieb:

Please read my posts again. I never had
>a "blanket indictment of xc for milers". My
>concern has always been overtraining and
>overracing. Again, I believe middle distance
>runners who are concerned about running at their
>best in May/June don't need to be running long
>miles in the summer and racing 10k in the
>fall.

Cyril further schrieb:


This is what I mean by focus on what is
>really important to the athlete. If xc is really
>important great - run. But many high potential
>milers are obligated to run to retain good favor
>with coaches and keep scholarships. However, if
>running fast in track is important the program
>should be designed around the goal of doing so.
>Long summer/fall miles including racing 10k don't
>fit the formula - IMO. I know this differs from
>what you think.

Is the conventional way
>including fall xc producing results?>

Confused Dutra schrieb:

How can I reach any other conclusion than you don't think milers in general should be running xc?

jd