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Lagat's B sample negative!!!

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  • gh
    replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    If you want to better understand both the science and protocol of the testing, this piece by Jim Ferstle on RW today is a must-read:

    http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300 ... WS,00.html

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    be careful what you ask for. Athletes will probably be seeing blood tests in the very near future ( i have that from a very good source) and also there is the hair folicle testing procedure. Very accurate, but prohibitively expensive given the numbers of athletes to test.

    The problem that I continue to see is that IAAF publicizes or somehow cons the athlete into public disclosure prior to the actual b sample testing and then uses any incriminating statement made in response to the IAAF leak, against the athlete in subsequent determination (see the Kelli White case).

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    actually, urine tests are the more expensive ones (see letsrun's article on don catlin, head of the UCLA lab). as someone who has spent a bit of time with kip, i hope this is just a mistake (the false positive "a") and he really wasn't doping. it does make me feel slightly better to hear this news, but also can't help but wonder about theories like, "could the time lapse between a and b sample testing produce different results?". i guess we'll never know, though we'll probably have a good idea if he never comes close to 3.26 again.

    high roller

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    <<Is a false negative on the B test a possibility?>>

    Sure it is, just as a false negative was also possible on the A test. However, I'm guessing a false negative is even RARER than a false positive. So, the B test comes back negative -- it's time to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Drug testing is never going to be perfect. If Lagat is not using, then he's an innocent victim of a not-perfect system. If Lagat was using, then he got lucky and if he's smart he'll stop using. If not, he'll get caught eventually.

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  • MJD
    replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    >Did they find any trace of EPO in is B sample?
    >Was it just merely under the allowable levels.
    >These things we will never know

    We'll know if he litigates. Let's see if he does.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    As Linford Christie said, use blood tests. Urine testing is cheap and I am sure many athletes have been wrongfully banned. Even one athlete given a 2 year ban is a mistake and a probable lost career. More accurate testing methods must be used in the future. The current testing devices are apparently so accurate that a grain of salt could be detected in a swimming pool. However the A and B samples came from exactly the same specimen, this highlights the current testings faults. Innocent athletes are getting banned and juiced athletes are getting off, stricter testing has got to be used before athletes start regarding the powers as a joke.

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  • JRinaldi
    replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    Did they find any trace of EPO in is B sample? Was it just merely under the allowable levels. These things we will never know (uless someone sit on the results for ten years and then decides to tell all)

    The guy got lucky this time. I highly doubt we will see another 3:26 from him

    Leave a comment:


  • michael lewis
    replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    "it's unfortunate that Lagat's test happened to be the "1 in a million" tests that come up a false-positive"

    Is a false negative on the B test a possibility?

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    Don't take this as gospel, but as I understand the process, it's a test that's made at a date mutually acceptable to both sides.

    IAAF/WADA certainly don't want to force the athlete (so long as resonable progress is being made). All that would do is give the athlete ammunition should the case end up going to CAS.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    I remember reading that as well...

    Since no test can be 100 percent perfect, it's unfortunate that Lagat's test happened to be the "1 in a million" tests that come up a false-positive. I suppose it's the price you pay for being a world-class athlete.

    But, with the WC's a few weeks away, it seems like the process could moved a lot faster. Especially if Lagat wanted it to move faster. No, I'm not saying it could have been done over night. But, could the B sample have been tested (with all the right people there) within a week? I would like to think so.

    I wonder who calls the shots regarding the 2nd test? Does the athlete have any say regarding the timing, or does the IAAF/WADA schedule a time at THEIR earliest convenience?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    This was all answered by gh earlier in another Lagat thread:

    <<It's not any testing procedure that's holding up the Lagat case, far as I know.

    I don't have a copy of the Doping Protocol at hand, but as I recall, when it comes to the B sample (unlike the A, which is done by faceless techs in a lab somewhere), the accused can be there, and/or can his representatives (federation, agent, manager, lawyer, his own doctor, whatever). And the people doing the accusing have to have all their people in place also.

    Getting all these people together when they're from multiple countries can't be done overnight. Need to work out a mutually acceptable schedule. I THINK I heard that the Lagat B hearing is on the 29th.>>

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    Sorry, I wasn't asying that it should be done haphazardly and without due process. Just that it could have been done a lot quicker without the sacrifices

    However, why was there such a delay? Did the IAAF cause the delay? Or, did Lagat and his attorney cause the delay?

    The positive A sample cause Lagat to miss the WC's and probably cost him some money. If he was confident that there was a mistake the first time around, why wouldn't he want to fast-track the second test?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    Yeah, that's what I always tell my clients: forget due process and your right to have an attorney present. Tell them just to rush that B sample right through and get back to you, eliminate all that worry of hanging around wondering what's going to happen.

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  • MJD
    replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    >Sue the
    >bastards!

    If he does, I'll have much more faith in the fact that he is innocent as opposed to not guilty. The burden of proof is less. I guess we will see.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Lagat's B sample negative!!!

    <<B sample always wins. Well actually... if either
    of the two samples is negative then the test is
    negative. If both are postive then the test is
    positive.>>

    If so, then it seems like it would be in the best interests of all parties (athlete, national federation, iaaf, wada, etc...) to test the B sample immediately. Or, at a minimum, the athlete should be allowed to request an immediate retest of the B sample.

    Leave a comment:

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