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**6 5.5hjsteve** · 10-01-2003, 09:29 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

My first ever track meet, at age 12 in 1956.
Love at first sight.
Seems like yesterday.

gh · 10-02-2003, 02:27 AM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

At this point, unacceptable commentary about Skip Stolley was removed. In the process, that required (cuz the way the software is linked; sorry!) the cutting of an innocent post by Michael Lewis. I can reproduce it however, even if not under his name directly:

<<Lucky NYC. The Toronto Star Maple Leaf Indoor Games used to be one of the best meets on the indoor circuit in the 70's and early '80s. As a kid I went autograph hunting and met up with Carl Lewis, Raelene Boyle, Irena Szewinska, Annelie Ehrhardt, Evelyn Ashford, and Eamonn Coghlan (and many others). They'd pack 'em in to the rafters 16,000 strong and Francie Larrieu's WR 1500 in '74 is still one of the best memories.>>

**Guest** · 10-02-2003, 05:42 AM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

sorry garry, my apologies, i should have gone about a different tack. however, i do still contend, with my experience with stolley, that the organization will not be as top-notch as it could/has be/been. I'm sure skip means well and all but when i've attended his meets in la, they've not been the best organized, so i wonder how his involvement with a large scale track meet, in a major market, will be any different. again, skips not necessarily a bad guy, just not as on the ball with meets as say, mike reilly (but then who is).

**Guest** · 10-02-2003, 06:40 AM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

yes, Mike Reilly is a better man for the job.

**Guest** · 10-02-2003, 01:55 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

The best man for the job of running the Millrose Games is the guy who's been doing it for decades (and for more than a half a century if you count the time he was helping his father run them). Nobody can run the Millrose Games as well as Howard Schmertz and if some guy from California tries to replace him it will be a terrible mistake.

**twinpeeks** · 10-02-2003, 03:14 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

I doubt that Howard will be replaced as meet director. The Stolley reference may have to simply do with his involvment period.

**MJR** · 10-02-2003, 03:49 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

Howard Schmertz named David Katz co-meet director last year in a move to eventually hand over the title in a few years. Skip's company might own the rights to it, but David runs the show. No one knows every iota of detail on how Millrose runs better than David, who now is on the IAAF Technical Committee.

Where Skip can help move Millrose back to its former level is to get earlier meet PR and better TV slots, especially a longer live broadcast. Getting more fannies in the seats is also key. My guess is they'll have to have a larger budget to cover more events and it'd only help if there was prize money awarded for the elite events in lieu of appearance fees (complete BS IMHO).

**Guest** · 10-02-2003, 07:45 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

Have you been to the last couple of Milroses???? And have you seen the letters in T&FN earlier this year (March, I believe)?

It is a shame that the world's greatest indoor meet has gone into a virtual abyss. Outrageous ticket prices ($30-80), empty seats, horrible organization and removal of top events have gutted this world famous event. I stopped going to Milrose three years ago.

The new acquisition is a start (let's hope). I have some other solutions:
1) Move it uptown to the 168th Street Armory (smaller venue and 200m track)
2) Emphasize the high school events (that's what recent Milrose goers were going to see, anyway! They were much more exciting!!!!!).
3) You want a real Wannamaker Mile, put up some cash for El Gerrouj!!!!! The last Wannamaker Miles I've seen were crap, with crap fields!!!!!

Peace.

**6 5.5hjsteve** · 10-02-2003, 07:59 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

Moving the Millrose Games from Madison Square Garden to the 168th St. Armory would be akin to moving the New York Yankees from Yankee Stadium to Power Memorial High School's baseball field.

**torpedo** · 10-02-2003, 10:17 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

It is a shame
>that the world's greatest indoor meet has gone
>into a virtual abyss. Outrageous ticket prices
>($30-80), empty seats, horrible organization and
>removal of top events have gutted this world
>famous event. I stopped going to Milrose three
>years ago.

The new acquisition is a start
>(let's hope). I have some other solutions:
1)
>Move it uptown to the 168th Street Armory
>(smaller venue and 200m track)
2) Emphasize the
>high school events (that's what recent Milrose
>goers were going to see, anyway! They were much
>more exciting!!!!!).
3) You want a real
>Wannamaker Mile, put up some cash for El
>Gerrouj!!!!! The last Wannamaker Miles I've
>seen were crap, with crap fields!!!!!

Millrose Games currently gets about 12,000 people. The Armory's capacity is about 4,000, so a move isn't smart. Ideally, New York City could use a track-specific facility that housed about 10,000. Since that's not the case, Madison Square Garden must do. The ticket prices ARE too high, which partly explains the empty seats. It may conflict with the Knicks schedule, but having the meet on Friday evening isn't optimal. A Saturday or Sunday would work better, enabling more people from Philadelphia, Boston, Washington D.C., etc. to come into New York without having to take off a day in order to make the meet on time. As many Jamaicans, Dominicans, Russians, & Chinese as there are in New York, there should be more athletes from these countries on the meet roster to help attendance some.

**Guest** · 10-02-2003, 10:35 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

Millrose Games currently gets
>about 12,000 people. The Armory's capacity is
>about 4,000, so a move isn't smart. Ideally, New
>York City could use a track-specific facility
>that housed about 10,000. Since that's not the
>case, Madison Square Garden must do. The ticket
>prices ARE too high, which partly explains the
>empty seats. It may conflict with the Knicks
>schedule, but having the meet on Friday evening
>isn't optimal. A Saturday or Sunday would work
>better, enabling more people from Philadelphia,
>Boston, Washington D.C., etc. to come into New
>York without having to take off a day in order to
>make the meet on time. As many Jamaicans,
>Dominicans, Russians, & Chinese as there are in
>New York, there should be more athletes from
>these countries on the meet roster to help
>attendance some.

Respectfully, I think 12,000 is a little bit exaggerated.

Penn Relays knows how to reinvent itself. Milrose has yet to master the reinvention art form.

An all indoor track facility of 10,000 would be perfect. There were thoughts of the Coney Island Sportsplex. That may die if NYC doesn't win the '12 bid.

The Garden used to be my favorite place. Now, I don't even want to go near it!!!!!

**Guest** · 10-03-2003, 02:50 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

Millrose was selling out again as recently as the late 1990's but saw that as an invitation to jack up the ticket prices. The highest priced seats(many bought by corporations by subscription) still sell well but "cheap" seats in the upper two levels are no longer cheap and largely go empty. If they are not going to reduce the prices on those seats directly, the answer is to offer promotional deals:

1. One would be to give a kid a free ticket in the upper deck if accompanied by a paying adult (in effect a buy one-get one free deal). This would help attract families and rebuild the fan base long term.

2. Another would be to market group sales to high school teams and running clubs. The Olympic Invitational in the Meadowlands used to offer upperdeck tickets for half price to groups of 25 or more. Unfortunately, they never did a mailing to the high schools in NJ, let alone the tri-state area. Millrose probably has some group sale deals available but I've never heard of the area schools or clubs being solicited by them.

**Guest** · 10-03-2003, 04:09 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

>Millrose was selling out again as recently as
>s the late 1990's but saw that as an invitation
>to jack up the ticket prices. The highest priced
>seats(many bought by corporations by
>subscription) still sell well but "cheap" seats
>in the upper two levels are no longer cheap and
>largely go empty. If they are not going to reduce
>the prices on those seats directly, the answer is
>to offer promotional deals:

1. One would be to
>give a kid a free ticket in the upper deck if
>accompanied by a paying adult (in effect a buy
>one-get one free deal). This would help attract
>families and rebuild the fan base long
>term.

2. Another would be to market group
>sales to high school teams and running clubs. The
>Olympic Invitational in the Meadowlands used to
>offer upperdeck tickets for half price to groups
>of 25 or more. Unfortunately, they never did a
>mailing to the high schools in NJ, let alone the
>tri-state area. Millrose probably has some group
>sale deals available but I've never heard of the
>area schools or clubs being solicited by them.

The old Mobil Indoor Meet at the Garden (held at the end of February) used to give high schools free upper deck tickets. I saw Marita Koch run and I saw Sergei Bubka vaul 19-7 (then the WR!) in 1986?. Seems like Milrose wants to maximize profits, so don't expect seats filled up in section 400. Peace.

**Guest** · 10-03-2003, 05:41 PM

Re: Millrose Games Aquired

The Armory gets a vote from me. I've been suggesting that for nearly 3 years now, and quite probably for two reasons: The track is too small at the Garden (in fact, very few facilities hold meets on 145.455m/160y tracks these days), and attendance threatens to drop below 10,000. By the way, when was the last time that anyone came close to a world record in any event other than the women's pole vault (which is relatively new)?

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