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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Shame On T&FN Board Moderators

    The interesting question
    >is: to what degree is it a "single" ("our")
    >sport? What connection is there, really,
    >between, say, a 4:45 miler and a 3:45 miler?
    >Both put one foot in front of the other, but
    >beyond that there may be at least as many
    >differences as similarities. No one is accusing
    >4:45 guys of illicit activities--and even if
    >they were doing such things, "we" simply
    >wouldn't care. So to imply that "they" are
    >ruining "our" sport is, at least, a debatable
    >proposition.

    I think the most likely connection is that the 4:45 miler is the one paying the salary of the 3:45 miler, through his purchasing of shoes and running atire, attending meets and maybe even watching the occasional one on TV. That they happen to comprise different segments (performer and spectator) does not change the fact that together they make up "our" sport. That many of the spectators also engage in the activity on a lower performance level happens to be a bonus.

    The question as to attention on the lives of the athletes is an interesting dilema. On the one hand, they are performers whose paydays are heavily influenced by how much attention they receive from the public (hence why a 3:58 Webb gets a lot more cash than a run of mill 3:55 Kenyan). There is more to their public face than the cold stats of 9.90, 3:29 or 2:06:30.

    But where to draw the line between fan interest or attention, and unwarranted intrusion into personal affairs is something that all celebrities (and the people who cover/talk about them) must face.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Shame On T&FN Board Moderators

    "I for one was a mediocre runner...And I think people like us don't deserve to have our sport ruined by drug use."

    The interesting question is: to what degree is it a "single" ("our") sport? What connection is there, really, between, say, a 4:45 miler and a 3:45 miler? Both put one foot in front of the other, but beyond that there may be at least as many differences as similarities. No one is accusing 4:45 guys of illicit activities--and even if they were doing such things, "we" simply wouldn't care. So to imply that "they" are ruining "our" sport is, at least, a debatable proposition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Shame On T&FN Board Moderators

    "These athletes deserve to have their lives respected and not have total strangers reaching in and twisting their lives around."

    Agreed. However, think also about the fans of the sport (like the posters on this board).

    I for one was a mediocre runner in my day and not blessed with a whole lot of talent; I simply worked as hard as I could (WITHOUT cheating). Nowadays, I help to support these athletes when I purchase running shoes and tickets to elite meets.

    I'm sure many of the posters on this board have similar profiles to mine.

    And I think people like us don't deserve to have our sport ruined by drug use.

    Leave a comment:


  • joel
    replied
    Re: Shame On T&FN Board Moderators

    Letsrun awaits all accusations anyone needs to get out of their system. But I'm not sure why T&FN would be liable for anything us riff-raff might have to say about anything. These are clearly our individual opinions, not theirs. So...shame.

    Leave a comment:


  • pickle47
    replied
    Re: Shame On T&FN Board Moderators

    Perhaps the best reason (and the one essentially behind the T&FN position) is that you might be wrong. It's possible to be wrong even in a court of law with all of the machinations of discovery and testimony, etc. So if you can't plant your feet in concrete when stating your position about someone else's life. Has anyone ever made false statements about you and has it impacted your life? When you're talking about drugs, you're talking about something that can seriously wreck a life, whether they took them or not.

    I've got my own thoughts on all of these alleged drugs users and issues, but there's no way I've got enough information to make any kind of public statement about them. I'll reserve those conversations for my buddies, who don't have a prayer of ever repeating them to anyone of consequence. These athletes deserve to have their lives respected and not have total strangers reaching in and twisting their lives around. It's bad enough to have to submit to national or international federation twisting in order to run in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • stevehj197
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    thanks, but its a loooong way from 1.97 to 2.134. But I had a lot of fun.

    Leave a comment:


  • michael lewis
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    my PR was eons ago, aka known as 1965, when I was 22 !"

    Pretty impressive for the era of the straddle and I imagine you'd have gone well over 7' in more recent modernity. Thanks for sharing that!

    Leave a comment:


  • Natasha
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    I really enjoy the track and field talk and having good discussions. There are so many knowledgable people here. The numbers, names and dates and love of the sport are brilliant. It seems like TFN is in a very difficult position here with the doping issues. I hope we can continue the good discussions.

    Leave a comment:


  • stevehj197
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    michael lewis, my PR was eons ago, aka known as 1965, when I was 22 !

    Leave a comment:


  • michael lewis
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    "A quick google search shows many citations both with and without "just" in them"


    Regardless of what Google may yield, de Nile IS a river in Egypt. OK mon? And denial is not only a river in Egypt. Put on your thinkin cap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    A quick google search shows many citations both with and without "just" in them. Alcolholic Anonymous is listed as a place where the phrase has been used for a long time

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    >"DENIAL IS NOT A RIVER IN EGYPT."

    "I
    >remember hearing that quote in an episode of
    >"Clueless"....."

    The saying is actually,
    >"denial is not just a river in Egypt". And
    >believe me, Jon, it pre-dates Clueless by
    >decades.




    I know it does. I just said that I heard it on Clueless (as opposed to saying "It first featured on an episode of Clueless"). There is a difference.

    Not that I watch Clueless or anything!! :-P

    Leave a comment:


  • michael lewis
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    Steve, are you 6-5.5 or a top masters competitor? What is the world record for 59-60 year-olds? Or when did you do your PR?

    Leave a comment:


  • michael lewis
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    "DENIAL IS NOT A RIVER IN EGYPT."

    "I remember hearing that quote in an episode of "Clueless"....."

    The saying is actually, "denial is not just a river in Egypt". And believe me, Jon, it pre-dates Clueless by decades.

    Leave a comment:


  • miler manque
    replied
    Re: proof is in the pudding

    Save the one
    >Runner's World article, which would be dismissed
    >as hearsay in a court, I was unable to find any
    >proof about the claim regarding Beyer.

    Not proof, but interesting nonetheless: Seb Coe, in "Running Free" (published 1981), on the 1978 European 800 meters championships won by Beyer over Ovett and Coe:
    "The extraordinary thing about Beyer was that Steve and I didn't see him again for ages. As he ran through the finishing line he was wrapped in blankets by two officials and hurried from the arean, instead of going off on a lap of honour, as you would expect from someone who had just won a European title. Geoff Capes and Dave Jenkins say that he walked off with his eyes completely slack. And he then went missing. We were informed that he'd provided his urine sample within thirteen minutes of running 1:43, which is unusual to say the least. It took Steve and me almost an hour and a half, and we only saw Beyer again at the victory ceremony."

    Leave a comment:

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