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Spangler As Recordsetter

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  • dunes runner
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    Ducks are ducks.

    Leave a comment:


  • DentyCracker
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    Not if she turned 20 in the calendar year, rules is rules

    Leave a comment:


  • dunes runner
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    A junior means under age 20.

    She ran the time at age 19.

    So it's an age 19 record and it's the AJR.

    Whether it's "approved" or not -- since she actually DID run the time and it's legitimate -- is apparently a control issue for some people.

    In any case she ran the time at age 19 and that makes it the AJR.

    Leave a comment:


  • MJD
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    >There's no double-speak or machinations involved.
    >Original statement was that she held the AJR and
    >AMR simultaneously and that turned out not to be
    >true.
    QED

    Or not. I can't keep track given the statement below:

    >Turns out that until around the early '90s, when
    >they brought their rules into line with the track
    >side, the LDR people did American Junior records
    >based on age at time of race. If today's rules
    >were applied (and they should be), Spangler would
    >be de-listed as holder of the AJR.

    Is that your opinion or a fact(that they should be)?

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    There's no double-speak or machinations involved. Original statement was that she held the AJR and AMR simultaneously and that turned out not to be true.
    QED

    Leave a comment:


  • MJD
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    None of these verbal double-plus speak machinations matter anyway. Here is the bottom line. She has the fastest female under 20 time for the marathon. Period. Full stop. If that doesn't happen to fit into an ever evolving definition of some other artificial calendar based definition of junior...who cares. Take it away from her then. It doesn't change the reality of what I described.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    I understand the rationale for a calendar year definition of a Junior for track, as Garry explained: With prelimaries on different days than than finals, what happens when someone has a birthday in between?

    But for road running there is no such problem. A road race takes place on a particular day. So for road running, why discriminate against kids born in December, and favor kids born in January? It seems to me the cost in terms of fairness is higher for road race records than the benefits of using the same definition of "junior" for both track and road.

    But, sigh, they didn't ask me when they made these decisions . . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    Turns out that until around the early '90s, when they brought their rules into line with the track side, the LDR people did American Junior records based on age at time of race. If today's rules were applied (and they should be), Spangler would be de-listed as holder of the AJR.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    There's no problem - if there's no "Junior Record", there is still an "age 19 record", which should be just as prestigious. They're just not listed. There are many events where that's the case. To T&F outsiders, it looks foolish - but to fans, it shouldn't be a problem. (Now, if you want problems, WORLD Junior records maybe should be taken with grains of salt.... from 800m up, anyway..)

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  • dunes runner
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    We could call all pigeons, ducks, and that would certainly be easier.

    But they'd still be pigeons, not ducks.

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    > I've said before that the definition of what a junior is is
    inane and likely mostly driven by the artificial school year which should have nothing to do with the real world. There is a potential 364 day difference in age.>>

    Yes, any age-group system that employs an "artificial" cutoff is going to lead to problems like a potential 364-day age difference. But there are practical considerations. If you base competition on actual date of age-change you can have people who are eligible to compete in the prelims of a meet and not the final. Or (and this is much more likely) you would have people who might compete in their nation's Junior championships for a year but be ineligible by the time the Worlds rolled around. Of the two screwy situations, the status quo is much cleaner and easier to adminstrate.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    Not sure, but I think the only Jr AND Master AR holder is Kate Schmidt - 6l.l2/200'6 in '72, and 43.58/143'0 in '96. With pre-'99 javelin, though.
    Probably several have held both, but not simultaneously (Larrieu, Stones, Willye White, Oerter?, Decker-Slaney, Lee Evans, ? ?)

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    also i guess nicholas kipkemboi who
    >is 19 must turn 20 before the end of the year, as
    >i did not see his 26.30 10k listed as a wjr.

    http://www.tilastopaja.com/db/atm.asp?ID=32586

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    >>I meant as regards the "She has the fastest
    >time
    >for an American woman over 40 and under 20
    >at the
    >time she ran the race" part.

    I was
    >kidding about the other part although I've said
    >before that the definition of what a junior is is
    >inane and likely mostly driven by the artificial
    >school year which should have nothing to do with
    >the real world. There is a potential 364 day
    >difference in age.

    or it could be a one day difference, didnt ritzenhiem run 13.27 for 5k at 19 but didnot get credit for a american junior record because his birthdate missed by 4 or 5 days and a real and silly question at the same time, what if one who sets an age record is one day off, but does it on the other side of the international dateline, example an american in asia or an asian in america, also i guess nicholas kipkemboi who is 19 must turn 20 before the end of the year, as i did not see his 26.30 10k listed as a wjr.

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  • MJD
    replied
    Re: Spangler As Recordsetter

    >I meant as regards the "She has the fastest time
    >for an American woman over 40 and under 20 at the
    >time she ran the race" part.

    I was kidding about the other part although I've said before that the definition of what a junior is is inane and likely mostly driven by the artificial school year which should have nothing to do with the real world. There is a potential 364 day difference in age.

    Leave a comment:

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