Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

[tafnut]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

Obviously she has adapted very well to an inefficient approach/takeoff, but my point as a coach is that she's not the role model you want your 'normally' talented jumpers to emulate. Talent usually does win out over technique, but what if you had talent and technique? Lewis's LJ, Stone's HJ, Bubka's PV, etc.

[Per Andersen]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

tafnut
I don't think anybody runs all the way into the takeoff with both arms pumping. There have to be some adjustments. Personally I liked the way Stones did this. Strand feels his way is good.
I was going to reply to Big Mac but I can't do it any better than tafnut already did.
Other than that I find it very interesting that S.A now has the best male and female jumper in the world.

[Guest]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

tafnut, I agree with you, she is not a technical role model for the high jumper at all, the way she jumps is not going to change. But. thats how her coach and her have chosen to jump and it works. Do you think she could be a 2.10m wr holder? Freitag is a huge guy, 6 foot 9 and was at one stage really bulky, around 100kg. He could go over 2,40 easy.

[Olegi2]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

It's the world champion's version of what is known in the trade as the double arm shift. The swing elements, two arms and the non-jumping leg are thrust upwards during take off thereby exerting more pressure on the ground. The harder an athlete pushes on the ground the harder the ground pushes back which increases the vertical velocity at take off, the governing factor in how high you go. But the movement patterns are difficult to learn, especially for a mature athlete. Get out you old tapes and see that Tamara Bykova (2.05m) did something similar but only with the arm nearer to the bar. At 2.0m+ who's arguing? Dr. Jesus Dapena(indiana University) explains it in his work on the biomechanics of high jumping. Marknhj is too modest , he performed the actions perfectly.

[Per Andersen]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

Big Mac
I certainly believe Cloete can jump 2.10 next year. Her attempt at that height in Paris was decent. Also Freitag clearing 2.40 is not unreasonable. Like you said he is getting very big, as tall as Charlie Clinger. Weight may become his problem. He is only 20. I thought Rybakov was going to be the man but now nobody really stands out.

[Per Andersen]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

Olegi2
What you wrote about the double arm shift, swing elements, two arms and the non-jumping leg is absolutely true but it does not apply to Hestrie Cloete. Her arm nearest the bar is already raised when the knee-drive occurs. Regarding the Dapena study. No jumper in that study including Bykova had a more active inside arm.(arm nearest the bar)

[Guest]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

Looks like next year might be a vintage HJ year!
Olympics viewers will be treated to men's and women's WR attempts, I hope. (And, if so, the tv presentation should include some nice slo-mo film of previous WRs - to show the intricacies of the event. Even a look at evolution of technique, from 1924,or whenever, to present. Better than another 'up-close-and-personal' timewaste, anyway!)

[Powell]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

>Looks like next year might be a vintage HJ
>year!
Olympics viewers will be treated to men's
>and women's WR attempts, I hope.

I believe there is a chance one of the women can threaten 2.09 next year (although I believe the record will survive), but I don't see anyone getting near 2.45. Freitag is very talented and all, but his best this year was a full 10 cm below WR. Personally, I'd happily settle for 2.40 being the best in the world next year. And I hope it will be Aleksander Walerianczyk who does it :-D

[6 5.5hjsteve]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

bf, it would be just fabulous if, on network TV during the Olympics, they did as you hope, and we see a story on evolution of HJ styles and/or slo mo of prior WR jumps, but you know, I know, we all know, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. Instead, we'll see 15 minutes ( or more ) or Marion Jones playing with little Tim Jr. "The Masses" wil love it !

[Guest]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

When does the High Jump network come out? I'll pay extra for it.

[Guest]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

In my opinion (and as a mediocre high jumper in high school in the 1960s) there's no form that's more beautiful than the classic Brumel-style straddle. It's a shame it's steadily vanishing from the face of the earth--like an exotic language spoken only by the elderly residents of a tribe in New Guinea. I competed in some master's hj competitions a decade ago and loved it because nearly all the competitors were using the straddle. I presume that wouldn't be the case in master's competitions today....

It would also be fascinating to see good slow-mo footage of good Eastern/Western (?) rollers, etc.

[Guest]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

Brumel was the most graceful, but Matzdorf's bent-knee lead was very athletic-looking and more aggressive. Brumel barely looked like he was trying. (Owens in the LJ, f'rinstance)

[6 5.5hjsteve]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

kuha1,

truer words were never spoken. We're a dying breed.

[jhc68]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

Yikes!!! Brumel barely looked like he was trying????!!!????? He was the fastest, strongest, most aggressive jumper of the era. No straddler surpassed his velocity and explosiveness until Vladimir Yaschenko many years later.

There were lots of leisurely straddlers (Dumas comes to mind... he was slow and graceful and so laid back that, according to legend, he fell asleep in the stadium tunnel during the Rome Olympic finals). Maybe Brumel was just too efficient for his effort to be appreciated properly by everyone, but my perception is that he was a jumping demon!!! As for aggressive arm throw at take off, Brumel is the model. He had great upper body strength and utilized it.

In terms of aesthetics, the most pleasing straddlers were quick, straight lead-leg guys like Joe Faust and Eddie Hanks. But their long leg swing at take off made it impossible for them to leave the ground as fast and explosively as Brumel.

[tafnut]

Re: Hestrie Cloete's windmill arm movements.

True story: I was a senior in HS in fall of '68 - a hurdler/pole vaulter on the track team. I watched Fosbury win in Mexico in October and immediately went into our indoor athletic center (it had a pit and standards!) and taught myself to flop. I had tried to HJ before and made 5'4 straddling. By March I had cleared 6'. I tried straddling again in practice and made 5'4 again. I think the flop not only revolutionized the event but gave it media attention, bringing more people to it. Obviously the biomechanics must be instrinsically better (no offense). I flopped 5'3 this year in a master's meet and straddled 4'4! (too many 'I's' in this post, but you get the gist)