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  • #31
    Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

    Great thoughts! You are hitting on something I agree is very important. We have a great resource of talent in the US of former WC middle distance runners. This talent should be utilized to help revitalize our current program.

    This may take the form of athletes such as Scott and Spivey coaching athletes. However, as mentioned above they aren't always lucky enough to get the elite talent to work with and they must still work within the parameters of the collegiate or H.S. systems.

    I think this is where the USTAF should play a more proactive role in enlisting the services of these former WC middle distance runners to oversee and mentor our current HS and college elites. Help to provide guidance to USTAF as to what can be done to improve the current program.

    Of course, this mentoring "task force" would probably be met with a degree of resistance from the college coaches who would see them as interfering with their objective of winning championships and producing winning teams instead of world class talent.

    This is where leadership from USTAF needs to be strong enough and foreward-thinking enough to come up with a workable solution.

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    • #32
      Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

      "Of course, this mentoring "task force" would probably be met with a degree of resistance from the college coaches who would see them as interfering with their objective of winning championships and producing winning teams instead of world class talent."

      That could be dealt with by limiting the involvment until the new guys were post-collegiate.

      I remember reading the SI article about Moorcroft after he broke the 5,000 WR. His club coach pointed out the a couple of days later, Moorcroft was right back at the club for a weekend run just like he always had been, and how it really helped the younger runners having him around. We are missing the kind of continuity. I'm not sure exactly how we need to fix it, but I do think someone like Webb would do well to spend some time with Steve Scott and Jim Spivey.

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      • #33
        Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

        Zatopek-

        We are in agreement. However, I think it would be much better if these "mentors" could get to the protoges as early as possible. Post collegiate is better than nothing and may be a great start, however, by the time an athlete is 22 there have been 4-6 valuable years lost. It would be great if talent was identified early, as early as 15-16, these kids should be given advice as to various aspect such as how to nurture the talent and not burn through it.

        I think a system like the one Scott has as CSSM would be ideal for a highly talented kid coming out of highschool. Being a lower division school I there would likely be much less pressure to earn points every meet and every season. There could therefore be more focus on the individual kid - especially if the kid had great ability out of hs (<150, 410). Soemone like Scott would be able to really focus on individual. Years ago when I was coaching HS in the '80s Steve would be known for making the rounds with ASICS and would run with the HS kids. He was always great - very approachable, fun to talk to and personable with the kids - a GREAT guy.

        The only problem some elites have working with lower levels is the degree of patience - they often can't understand why it is so difficult for some to do what comes so easy for them and expect the rate of improvement to be similiar to what they experienced.

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        • #34
          Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

          "Soemone like Scott would be able to really focus on individual. Years ago when I was coaching HS in the '80s Steve would be known for making the rounds with ASICS and would run with the HS kids. He was always great - very approachable, fun to talk to and personable with the kids - a GREAT guy."

          I absolutely agree. Steve is about as approachable as they come. I had dinner with him a couple of years ago, and have met him several times. But the same is true of Virgin and others. I have found most of these guys very, very willing and eager to share their knowledge; we just don't seem to have a good way of dispersing it.

          And I COMPELETELY agree that the sooner we get them involved the better. I just know the realities of the NCAA. Just ask Steve Scott about his experience with Brent Steiner and Steve Smith, which ultimately resulted in them having to transfer schools. Steve was completely innocent in all that, but it was afoul of the rules nonetheless.

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          • #35
            Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

            >Steve was completely innocent in all that, but
            >it was afoul of the rules nonetheless.

            Completely innocent?

            For two examples of screw-up:
            Scott ran a workout with the two runners. As Scott was an official representative of the college, this can be construed as a try-out, according to the rules.
            Scott also gave them a ride home, which also violates a clearly written rule.

            Disagree with the rules if you like, but don't pull the revisionist history garbage just because you think Scott is a "nice guy."

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            • #36
              Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

              For two
              >examples of screw-up:
              Scott ran a workout with
              >the two runners. As Scott was an official
              >representative of the college, this can be
              >construed as a try-out, according to the
              >rules.
              Scott also gave them a ride home, which
              >also violates a clearly written rule.

              Disagree
              >with the rules if you like, but don't pull the
              >revisionist history garbage just because you
              >think Scott is a "nice guy."

              This is the first I've heard of this. From these examples it sounds like Steve's kindness and caring got the best of him. Do you have any other information regarding the infractions?

              If this is true it supports my contention that the system is so f'n f'd that a well intentioned guy trying to do what is best is screwed for those efforts. Again, the beuracracy of the college system is undermining the well intentioned efforts of those who are trying to do what is right and help kids succeed.

              There really must be a better way. I knew things were bad, they were bad 20 years ago, but I hadn't realized things have gotten that out of hand.

              If my kids are ever in a position where they would want to run in college, and they aren't too far off, I would encourage them to talk to Steve -I couldn't imagine a better role model for young milers.

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              • #37
                Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                <<Berryhill = ?>>

                I hear Berryhill is getting online advice from coach Warhurst of Michigan. With a 3:55 mile PR Berryhill has potential to run a 3:50. If this were the early 80's he probably be running a 3:51 by now.

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                • #38
                  Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                  "Completely innocent?

                  For two examples of screw-up:
                  Scott ran a workout with the two runners. As Scott was an official representative of the college, this can be construed as a try-out, according to the rules.
                  Scott also gave them a ride home, which also violates a clearly written rule.

                  Disagree with the rules if you like, but don't pull the revisionist history garbage just because you think Scott is a "nice guy.""

                  Your absolutely right. Let me clarify. What I meant was that Steve's screw-up WAS innocent. He was sent on that trip with no prepping for what he could and couldn't do. To go further, the other infraction was the he gave them a ride home after the workout, also constituting providing them transportation.

                  I never meant he did anything wrong; I meant that he didn't INTENTIONALLY do anything wrong, and he didn't. One of the athletes involved later became my teammate, and I have spoken with Steve about it personally, so I have a very clear picture of what happened. You're right; he screwed up, but it wasn't intentional. And I was in no way attempting to revise that history.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                    <<And I COMPELETELY agree that the sooner we get them involved the better. I just know the realities of the NCAA. Just ask Steve Scott about his experience with Brent Steiner and Steve Smith, which ultimately resulted in them having to transfer schools. Steve was completely innocent in all that, but it was afoul of the rules nonetheless.>>

                    It is this kind of stupid bureaucracy that is hurting US running. Just let the kids run.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                      I just realized the infraction was a recruiting violation. While I understand how the incident may have occured I also realize why this was an issue requiring recourse.

                      I'm sure Scott learned his lesson and will be well aware of the regulations in the future.

                      It would still be nice if USTAF with the assistance of Nike, Adidas or another sponsor would step up to the plate and utilize some of our domestic resources (past world class talent).
                      A melding of these veterens with our very talented hs athletes could produce some world level talent. Waiting until after college is too late.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                        I things don't improve soon we may have to wait another 12 years for an US sub 3:50 mile.

                        It would be nice if an American broke 3:54 next year. One step at a time.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                          If my kids are ever in a position where they
                          >would want to run in college, and they aren't too
                          >far off, I would encourage them to talk to Steve
                          >-I couldn't imagine a better role model for young
                          >milers.

                          You obviously haven't read his book where he talks about continuing to carry on his affair with a woman in Europe even after his wife begged him to end it.

                          No matter how fast he has run, I would never want this guy as a role model for my kids, whatever event they did!

                          And don't yank this post! It's all in his own book. No rumors here.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                            >I things don't improve soon we may have to wait
                            >another 12 years for an US sub 3:50 mile.

                            I wonder how fast Brent Steiner could have run if he hadn't had the rug pulled out from under him?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                              In this day and age is having an affair really that big of a deal? Scott sinned and admitted it and that is enough for me.
                              Scott is a one of the greatest US distance runners ever. His advice is invaluble. This is the guy that chased all those great British milers to world records. Scott and to some extent Spivey have the training secrets for breaking 3:50 that has eluded today's US milers. Jason Lunn is obviously very talented, but he is doing something wrong in his training. Perhaps if he looked at either Scott or Spivey's past training logs he would get some answers. Lunn should have either run 3:50 by now or made a world championship final.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                                "I wonder how fast Brent Steiner could have run if he hadn't had the rug pulled out from under him?"

                                Steiner transferred to KU and had a so-so career after the Arizona fiasco with the Scott visit. I believe he got 7th at NCAA cross one year. But Steiner was fragile and needed some TLC to get him to his best, and Bob Timmons was hardly a coach to handle a kid like that. I believe he had a decent career as a duathlete post-collegiate.

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