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  • #46
    Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

    You obviously
    >haven't read his book where he talks about
    >continuing to carry on his affair with a woman in
    >Europe even after his wife begged him to end
    >it.

    No matter how fast he has run, I would
    >never want this guy as a role model for my kids,
    >whatever event they did!

    And don't yank this
    >post! It's all in his own book. No rumors here.

    A running role model - not a role model for how to be a loyal husband - I hope they will look to their own parents for this. It would not be a coaches job to mentor their athletes on how to be loyal in relationships.

    However, if they want a role model for miling there is no American better than Steve. If my kids were involved in basketball I would also like them to look to Kobe or Jordan as models of great basketball players (not great husbands or gamblers).

    My kids moral character will come from me and my wife, their athletic development will depend to a greater extent on their coaches. I think Scott's unparalleled miling background and friendly personality would combine to make him a great coach for young milers.

    And I am not about to begin casting stones.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

      >A running role
      >model - not a role model for how to be a loyal
      >husband - I hope they will look to their own
      >parents for this.

      >If my kids were involved in basketball I
      >would also like them to look to Kobe or Jordan as
      >models of great basketball players (not great
      >husbands or gamblers).

      My kids moral character
      >will come from me and my wife, their athletic
      >development will depend to a greater extent on
      >their coaches.

      >I think Scott's unparalleled
      >miling background and friendly personality would
      >combine to make him a great coach for young
      >milers.

      How do you separate portions of a person's values toward the world by situation? You can't. The same values that got them to make decision A will affect them when it comes to decision B. Decision A might not affect your kid, but what about B or C or D, etc.?

      I would certainly hope all children emulate their (good and decent) parents rather than some celebrity, but join the real world here. If role models didn't have such a huge influence why do you think Nike, etc, spend so much money propping them up as icons? To suggest that your kid is only going to take what you hope they will take from their contact with someone is ignorance and denial of how influence works when it comes to kids. The old Charles Barkley ducking responsibility bit by trying to claim "I am not a role model." Garbage!

      Or let me put it another way. Would you let the former head of Enron teach economics at your kids' school? Or the late Michael Milken? That guy stood up in front of an assembled crowd and stated that greed was a good thing because it brought out the competitiveness of capitalism and thereby advanced the world.

      Both these guys were experts on money. If you wanted your kids to know how money works, why not let these guys teach them? Unless, of course, you're afraid they might pick up some values you don't agree with, like stealing and cheating through stock inflation and insider trading, from their expert role models?

      Or in keeping with sports, would you be comfortable letting Ben Johnson coach your kids, knowing his attitude and underlying values about taking drugs to be the best? How about Mike Tyson teaching your kids to box, knowing his attitude and underlying values toward abusing women? Both these guys were two of the best in their field.

      Same with Scott. The ho-hum, I should have stopped but gosh, I guess I didn't attitude and the values that created that attitude would have me keep my kids away from him, no matter how fast he has run.

      Not a matter of throwing stones. And to the other poster, yes, it does still matter that you make a promise to someone for life and keep it. God help our world if it didn't.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

        "In this day and age is having an affair really that big of a deal?"

        yes! just because so many people do it does not in any way diminish the deeply hurtful and traumatic effects of adultery. Is it OK if your spouse does it?! Scott was a great runner and his athletic career was marvelous, but he would be the first to admit (I hope) that he is not the role model parents want their children to emulate. Wouldn't you rather have a highly moral mediocre runner, than a world-class athlete who can't distiguish between right and wrong? I am not denigrating Scott as totally immoral, he IS a class guy in 99% of all contexts, but let's "teach our children well." That he saw the error of his ways allows us to forgive, but not forget.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

          No, I would not want Milken teaching my kids about business because that is the field in which he screwed up. I wouldn't want Ben Johnson teaching my kids how to sprint because he cheated on the track.

          On the track Scott was awesome. Problems with his personal life are not of my concern or my business or the business of his atheltes. As a mentor of how to run a mile he has credentials unmatched by anyone in this country.

          I wouldn't expect the Pope to be able to teach my kids to run a mile any more than I would expect Steve Scott to teach my kids how to live a moral life - its not his job. I would expect a coach to focus on his expertise and not attempt to pursuade his ahtletes to adhere to their personal morals.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

            >Or
            >the late Michael Milken?

            Not trying to be picky here but I don't think he is dead.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

              Scott should also be commended for overcoming cancer. That is real courage!

              Someone with either Scott, Spivey, or Byers knowledge better get a hold of Alan Webb before his career is wasted. It was heart breaking watching Webb lose to "B" level milers this spring.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                >
                Scott should also be commended for overcoming
                >cancer. That is real courage!

                Someone with
                >either Scott, Spivey, or Byers knowledge better
                >get a hold of Alan Webb before his career is
                >wasted. It was heart breaking watching Webb lose
                >to "B" level milers this spring.>

                Why does every thread about miling have to go back to Alan Webb? That's a rhetorical question.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                  Andy-

                  I agree that former great US milers could help Webb, but I don't think it is yet time to throw in the towel on what made him what he was in '01 and throughout his h.s. career. I also think Flynn is in his corner- not a bad resource.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                    >Someone with
                    >either Scott, Spivey, or Byers knowledge better
                    >get a hold of Alan Webb before his career is
                    >wasted. It was heart breaking watching Webb lose
                    >to "B" level milers this spring.

                    Keep in mind he was around, and training with, a 3:50/3:31 guy at UM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                      Yeah, but Kevin Sullivan was basically a consultant when Webb was at Michigan. Besides, Sullivan is still not Steve Scott or Jim Spivey. There is a profound difference in being talented and a genius. Scott's 136 sub 4 minute miles is a work of a genius. In US distance running a Steve Scott and Jim Spivey come around ever 20 years. Heck, the British are still waiting for the next Steve Cram and Coe.

                      I would say Sullivan and Krummenacker are close to Byers in ability. According to Scott Byers was quite a character. I guess he was the Gabe Jennings of his day. Coe was once beaten by Byers and said to someone who the hell just beat me!
                      Byers is a great forgotten talent in US distance running.

                      Does anyone know what happened to Byers? What is he doing today?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                        I found this on Byers. He is a very interesting and unique individual. It interesting how he kept disappearing and comingback throughout his career.
                        Byers was never afraid about taking on the world's best. I think he was probably overshadow by Scott, Coe, Spivey, and Maree.
                        According to the the article below he has comeback again as a world-class master's runner!

                        http://members.aol.com/track2ceo/byers.html

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                          According to the the article below he has
                          >comeback again as a world-class master's
                          >runner!

                          http://members.aol.com/track2ceo/byers.
                          >tml

                          I think that was 5 or so years ago.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                            I know ....... Who knows maybe he is planning another comeback.

                            Have you noticed how many outdated and abandoned websites there are out there. This site of Byers has been up for the last 6 years with probably no maintenance.
                            What will happen to all this web "junk". Imagine how much abandoned web junk there is going to be on the internet in 10 years.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                              >Yeah, but Kevin Sullivan was basically a
                              >consultant when Webb was at Michigan. Besides,
                              >Sullivan is still not Steve Scott or Jim Spivey.>

                              I would think any North American miler would have great interest in what Mr. Sullivan has to say. The guy finished 5th at the WC's and has run 3:31.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Running a 3:49.80 mile

                                >Heck, the British are still waiting for the next
                                >Steve Cram and Coe.

                                The drop off in Britain says a lot about the West in general. It's as much a lack of interest, as it is Africans taking to the sport with zeal. Look at last year's jr. XC champs in Britain. Less than 100 entrants, apparently. There used to be over 500 or 600 kids entered.

                                Comment

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