Pac-10 XC results ['03 thread revived]

[EPelle]

http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/posting.php?mode=

Re-focused Torrence pulling CAL teammates through.

http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=26644

This hunger seems to have carried over to the rest of the team this season as the men placed fifth overall in the Pre-NCAA Invitational on Oct. 13. The Bears’ fifth-place finish helped the men achieve their highest ranking in school history, No. 8 in the U.S. Track and Field and Cross Country Coaches Association poll.

“Now that we’re doing well this year and running with other teams, we aren’t racing with ourselves anymore, we’re racing to beat people,” says Torrence. “Now we’re talking trash to other teams.”

Re: Pac-10 XC results

Martin Smith understands distance training and has been improving other parts of the program but some have criticized his personal and PR skills.

>Hmmm, Stanford 23 and Oregon 91. Wonder what the
>results would have been if Oregon could keep
>Oregon runners?

Re: Pac-10 XC results

Hmmm, Stanford 23 and Oregon 91. Wonder what the results would have been if Oregon could keep Oregon runners?

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

now the bear team and that top 2 are a coulda shoulda woulda away from doing anything in the 03 cross season. some things never change. at least bridget duffy made it to ncs.

>lilot, your criticism hurt my feelings. please
>stop. seriously, though. i too want to see a
>good cal team. what we had when gilmore and i
>were there was a team of walk-ons. walk-ons who
>were a shoulda, coulda, woulda away from doing
>something. now they do have some high school
>studs. should they have run better at pac-10s?
>no doubt. do they know that? yes. is it all
>tony's fault? i don't think so. i think bad
>races can be blamed more on the athlete than the
>coach. but i too agree, things are not perfect
>in berkeley and things need to change quick. i
>don't want to make predictions, but look for
>some big things at regionals from the top
>2.

http://www.transportsadidas.org (sorry, a
>cheap plug)

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

lilot, your criticism hurt my feelings. please stop. seriously, though. i too want to see a good cal team. what we had when gilmore and i were there was a team of walk-ons. walk-ons who were a shoulda, coulda, woulda away from doing something. now they do have some high school studs. should they have run better at pac-10s? no doubt. do they know that? yes. is it all tony's fault? i don't think so. i think bad races can be blamed more on the athlete than the coach. but i too agree, things are not perfect in berkeley and things need to change quick. i don't want to make predictions, but look for some big things at regionals from the top 2.

http://www.transportsadidas.org (sorry, a cheap plug)

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal women

Here's more on what happened to the Cal women:

Sophomore Bridget Duffy had the Cal women's best finish in five years,
placing 13th in a time of 22:15.70 on the 6,000m course. The Oakland,
Calif., product improved on her freshman year conference showing of 35th,
which was also the Bears' top result in 2002. Junior Abby Parker was the
Bears' next best runner in 41st (23:47.00), followed by freshman Eva
Markiewicz in 50th (24:13.30).

The Cal women were without the services of two of their top runners -
Christy Borak and Maja Ruznic - due to injuries.

[dl]

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

Thanks Gilmore and Moreno for providing some insight into how the Cal program works. I didn't mean to be overly critical in my earlier posts.

I think I simply want what all Cal fans want: a good team that is competitive in the Pac-10. I could see how athletes on the team might be thinking of their long-term running careers, but I think fans want the team to do well while they're in college. I doubt many older Cal fans follow the alums on the roads.

Cal is one of the best (if not the very best) public schools in the country. It has the biggest population of in-state kids to draw from. Fantastic weather. The running from campus isn't that great, but you're near some of the best trails in the country. There's simply no reason for them not to be competitive within the conference and on the national level.

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

I can accept one bad year or two from a team I follow and want to do well. But this is ridiculous. It seems every single year that Cal gets last in men's and women's cross country. Even a broken clock gets in right every once in awhile. I don't understand the problem. I heard this was going to be a good year for a young men's Cal Bears team. And I also was told that the Cal women would finish in the top 5 at Pac-10's. But both the men and women were terrible at Pac-10's. Something needs to change soon. This is not acceptable. We have settled for less than mediocrity at Cal. Im sick and tired about the lame excuses from the coaching staff about lack of money. I saw the Cal Bears at the Stanford Invitational win the 4k race. From that point, it was all down hill. The team obviously peaked way too early. And it is clear as a bell that they lack toughness. I hate finishing last every year. I wouldnt be able to live with myself if I was the head coach.

[6 5.5hjsteve]

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

Gotta be impressed when both men and women got under the "magic number" of 27; they beat the rest of the conference combined in both races !

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

i think i fall somewhere in the middle of the road on all of this. i do agree that the job of a college coach is to develop his/her athletes to perform their best at the collegiate level. but i also feel it is to continue to develop the athlete so they can run beyond college. do i think tony did this? i think he did more of the latter. i know i could have run faster in college. but that is my own doing. i didn't run enough miles (70-80).

i think a college coach needs to be very structured, at least until an athlete gains the experience where they can makes these decisions on their own. "do this many miles, do runs of this length, etc." tony wasn't necessarily like this. and we all did varying mileage.

did he help me develop? hell yes. do i wish i would have gone elsewhere? no. do i wish i had done some things differently, yes. but under tony, my leg speed and leg strength both increased. i went from 4:20/9:31 (hs) and 15:16/31:51 (what was i doing?) (jc) to 14:40 (no, not all that)/29:43. could i have done that elsewhere in two years time (he wanted me to take three)? possibly. but i feel he, and all my coaches, provided the basis for the runner i am now. and the fact that i'm still a runner now is enough for me.

p.s. '97 was dope. the west was stacked like pancakes.

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

I agree with Lilot that you can have success in college and post-collgiate. We had a very good XC team at Cal in 97 that came so close (5th man back 20 places from where he should have been) from getting fourth in the toughest region I've ever seen. We were no high school all star team that year but Tony had us prepared. I still draw on the days leading up to that race as a blueprint for how to get ready for battle. Those races may not have looked like success from your point of view, but to us they were milestones. The point being, we measured our own success in college. The poster who tried to discredit our performances in the marathon has obviously missed this point. Hopefully my measure of success someday match his/her idea of success.
I don't train with Tony now because I found a coach who is a better fit for what I'm trying to do. That doesn't mean that I would trade my years under Tony. He was the right coach for me at that time. There were many times that we disagreed, but looking back he was right most of the time. I would have had a lot more success at Cal if had just shut up and listened.

Re: Pac-10 XC results-Cal

Having flubbed myself as a frosh (not at Cal) and then progressed significantly as a soph, I can attest to the difficulty for frosh in the Pac 10. But Guangal and Carballo are not frosh, and should being running MUCH faster than shown here.

And what about the women? They seemed to show a lot of promise at Stanford, but then steadily declined. I expected them to finish in the middle of the pack.

[dl]

Re: Pac-10 XC results

I believe Bolota Asmerom trains, at least in part, under Tony, after a couple of years on The Farm Team.

Re: Pac-10 XC results

Who cares if there are some Cal guys running 2:19 for the marathon? That wouldn't even put you atop the women's list. Just because American marathoners suck now and a few former Bears are dipping under a terribly weak qualifying standard does not mean that Tony's doing things intelligently and with a view toward his athlete's future.

Re: Pac-10 XC results

If Tony is such a great coach, how many of the marathoners you mention still train with him?