Salinas Throws?

[tandfman]

Would the thinness of the air at altitude be a negative factor?

[gh]

Physics not my strong suit, but since the stronger the incoming wind, the better the throw, my assumption would certainly be that if there are fewer molecules, the less lift you're going to get.

[tafnut]

Physics not my strong suit, but since the stronger the incoming wind, the better the throw, my assumption would certainly be that if there are fewer molecules, the less lift you're going to get.

which would be offset by the weaker gravity? (yeah, physics ain't my thing neither)

[26mi235]

Physics not my strong suit, but since the stronger the incoming wind, the better the throw, my assumption would certainly be that if there are fewer molecules, the less lift you're going to get.

which would be offset by the weaker gravity? (yeah, physics ain't my thing neither)

Weaker gravity -- do not forget that you age more slowly at elevation. I think gravity is as strong but the value of R (distance between center of mass) gets gets squared.

Of course, another way to look at it is my favorite that I made up before tafnut's 400h PR:

"There is no gravity, geometry sucks"

[Athleticsimaging]

Full results courtesy of The Ring. eldrick, please take note of the lack of series!

Salinas Discus Series II
Hartnell College; Salinas, CA
Thursday, May 17, 2007

Official Results (series not available as only best mark was recorded by officials)

Women's Discus competition
1. Breisch, Becky, High Performance, 66.64m/218-8
2. Tunks, Leija, Asics/Canada, 56.56m/185-7
3. Varner, Rachel, Unattached, 55.24m/181-3
4. Hutchinson, Kate, Unattached, 55.99m/180-5
5. Gleason, Kim, Unattached, 53.44m/175-9
6. Hess, Annie, Oregon Throwers Academy, 52.90m/173-7
7. Tripp, Katherine, Unattached, 44.33m/145-5

Men's Discus competition: "A" section
1. Rome, Jarred, Nike, 67.76m/222-4
2. Arrhenius, Niklas, BYU/Sweden, 65.77m/215-9
3. Kuehl, Adam, Arizona, 64.98m/213-2
4. Gowda, Vikas, India, 64.96m/213-1
5. Malone, Casey, Nike, 64.74m/212-5
6. Tunks, Jason, Asics/Canada, 61.21m/200-10
7. Petrucci, Nick, Unattached, 60.39m/198-1

Men's Discus competition: "B" section
1. Conwell, William, Unattached, 62.18m/204-0
2. Maric, Martin, Croatia, 62.04m/203-6
3. Dennis, James, Unattached, 61.13m/200-6
4. Sullivan, Luke, Unattached, 59.55m/195-4
5. Seefeld, Kurt, Cal-Berkeley, 55.77m/182-11
6. Ringquist, Pete, Pac Bay TC, 54.80m/179-9

Men's Discus competition: Masters section
1. Fahey, Tom, Unattached/age 59, 51.59m/169-3

TEMPUTURE- 64 DEGREES



WIND- 14----16 MPH

[gh]

Kuehl takes yearly collegiate lead, just outside the all-time top 10. Which is

67.66 222-0 Hannes Hopley' (SMU) 5/29/04
66.58 218-5 Kamy Keshmiri (Nv) 5/31/91
66.54 218-4 Gábor Máté' (Aub) 4/16/00
66.22 217-3 Goran Svensson' (BYU) 5/16/81
66.08 216-9 Stefan Fernholm' (BYU) 5/19/84
65.88 216-2 Dean Crouser (Or) 6/03/83
65.60 215-3 Vesteinn Hafsteinsson' (Al) 7/17/83
65.36 214-5 Mike Buncic (Ky) 4/28/85
65.20 213-11 Jason Tunks' (SMU) 4/12/97
65.16 213-9 Randy Matson (TxAM) 4/08/67

but he does become No. 5 American Collegian
66.58 218-5 Kamy Keshmiri (Nv) 5/31/91
65.88 216-2 Dean Crouser (Or) 6/03/83
65.36 214-5 Mike Buncic (Ky) 4/28/85
65.16 213-9 Randy Matson (TxAM) 4/08/67
64.98 213-2 Adam Kuehl (Az) 5/17/07
64.92 213-0 John Godina (UCLA) 5/27/95
64.89 212-10 Michael Robertson (SMU) 3/27/04
64.86 212-9 Andy Bloom (WF) 5/22/96
64.54 211-9 Scott Crowell (IaSt) 4/02/82
64.44 211-5 Ian Waltz (WaSt) 5/19/98

[Trackshark]

Kuehl takes yearly collegiate lead, just outside the all-time top 10.

BYU's Niklas Arrhenius hit 215-9 in the same meet, so he actually takes the collegiate lead (even though the regional qualifying window has passed) and is 7th all-time, according to your list.

[gh]

doh!

(our collegiate window closes w/ Nationals: Regionals has nothing to do with it)

[EPelle]

Arrhenius climbed from #9 to #4 on the Swedish all-time list, improving from 63,62m (Provo, 2004) to 65,77m. Rickard Bruch (71,26m - 1984) has our NR.

[gh]

redone list (blush)

All-Time Collegiate Discus List

(only includes marks made through NCAA)
67.66 222-0 Hannes Hopley' (SMU) 5/29/04
66.58 218-5 Kamy Keshmiri (Nv) 5/31/91
66.54 218-4 Gábor Máté' (Aub) 4/16/00
66.22 217-3 Goran Svensson' (BYU) 5/16/81
66.08 216-9 Stefan Fernholm' (BYU) 5/19/84
65.77 215-9 Niklas Arrhenius' (BYU) 5/17/07
65.88 216-2 Dean Crouser (Or) 6/03/83
65.60 215-3 Vesteinn Hafsteinsson' (Al) 7/17/83
65.36 214-5 Mike Buncic (Ky) 4/28/85
65.20 213-11 Jason Tunks' (SMU) 4/12/97

Top 10 Americans
66.58 218-5 Kamy Keshmiri (Nv) 5/31/91
65.88 216-2 Dean Crouser (Or) 6/03/83
65.36 214-5 Mike Buncic (Ky) 4/28/85
65.16 213-9 Randy Matson (TxAM) 4/08/67
64.98 213-2 Adam Kuehl (Az) 5/17/07
64.92 213-0 John Godina (UCLA) 5/27/95
64.89 212-10 Michael Robertson (SMU) 3/27/04
64.86 212-9 Andy Bloom (WF) 5/22/96
64.54 211-9 Scott Crowell (IaSt) 4/02/82
64.44 211-5 Ian Waltz (WaSt) 5/19/98

[Jon]

4. Gowda, Vikas, India, 64.96m/213-1

National record for India.

[eldrick]

Physics not my strong suit, but since the stronger the incoming wind, the better the throw, my assumption would certainly be that if there are fewer molecules, the less lift you're going to get.

which would be offset by the weaker gravity? (yeah, physics ain't my thing neither)

Weaker gravity -- do not forget that you age more slowly at elevation. I think gravity is as strong but the value of R (distance between center of mass) gets gets squared

the difference in gravity at sea-level ( 9.81 m/s^2 ) & even, at mexico city is trivial - it's virtually a non-factor

the value of g is proportional to the square of the distance from earth's centre ( 6400km at sea-level ) & mexico is 2.2k above sea-level

value of g at mexico is therefore

~ 9.81 * ( 6400/6402.2 )^2 = 9.803

it is virtually unchanged

the effect of gravity producing explosive performances at altitude is indirect - less "hold" on air molecules & therefore less air-resistance

for a ballpark, altitude-assisted performances are due to :

maybe 95% less air-resistance & 5% due to actual lower gravity value

if your looking for "altitude" assistance, don't even bother trying to find out the actual altitude ( it's virtually meaningless ( except for iaaf lists ! ) ) - just take your barometer along - that'll give you all the info you really need

[26mi235]

Physics not my strong suit, but since the stronger the incoming wind, the better the throw, my assumption would certainly be that if there are fewer molecules, the less lift you're going to get.

which would be offset by the weaker gravity? (yeah, physics ain't my thing neither)

Weaker gravity -- do not forget that you age more slowly at elevation. I think gravity is as strong but the value of R (distance between center of mass) gets gets squared

the difference in gravity at sea-level ( 9.81 m/s^2 ) & even at mexico city is trivial - it's virtually a non-factor

the value of g is proportional to the square of the distance from earth's centre ( 6400km at sea-level ) & mexico is 2.2k above sea-level

value of g at mexico is therefore

~ 9.81 * ( 6400/6402.2 )^2 = 9.803

it is virtually unchanged

the effect of gravity producing explosive performances at altitude is indirect - less "hold" on air molecules & therefore less air-resistance

for a ballpark, altitude-assisted performances are due to :

maybe 95% less air-resistance & 5% due to actual lower gravity value

I thought that the reference to the differential aging (which is extremely small) would indicate that I was not being serious in terms of a major effect.

Doing a quick calculation, Mexico City is 1.5 miles; taking into account the square of the radius between COMs and we have (4001.5/4000)^2 = 1.00075. Now take a 70m discus toss and we get that there is a 5cm advantage. This is small but measurable. For the SP, we get 1.5cm, and clearly whatever effect there is of the air density, it is an advantage to have thinner air.

Now how about the javelin? Does air density matter, if so then there might be a noticable difference, although we are not talking the same effects as 100m sprint times, I do not think.

By the way, I was surprised a little while ago that when they do the calculations for GPS using satellite data the calculations will be badly flawed unless they take account of both Special AND General Relativity.

[eldrick]

26'er

if you play around with this, it gives a good answer ( ignoring air resistance ) :

http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph11e/projectile.htm

put in release height of 1.50m, speed 25.93, angle 45 degrees & g of 9.81, it gives distance of 70.0

now change g to an extreme of say, 9.78 ( it doesn't seem to change answer with 9.80 or 9.79 - doesn't give answers for distances to 2 decimal places ) , it gives new answer as 70.1

just confirms trivial effect of changes in g o distance

( side point - interestingly it gives a time value as well - maybe useful to calculate basketball "hang times" if we had sufficient data )

[Athleticsimaging]

Vikas breaks national discus record

Vikas Gowda broke his own national discus throw record when he managed a distance of 64.96m at the Gary Shaw Classic Throws meet in the....