Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

[BillVol]

I was watching one of those sports blooper shows the other day. It was on ESPN and hosted by Jim Belushi.

One of their "top ten" bloopers was of a LJer in the Commonwealth Games. It looked like he was going to land out of the sand pit and to avoid this (and injury) he came out of his form. He started to lean to a side, he straightened his legs out, and because of this, he landed safely in the sand insted of on the cement bordering the pit. Of course, the way it looked was funny, which is why it was a sports blooper. He almost landed on his head. But it appeared that by coming out of his form, he was able to shorten the distance of his long jump.

But some people on here say that NOTHING you do in the air has any effect on the length of the jump, provided the landing is done properly. Once you take off, that's it.

The debate on here a few months ago was "hitch" vs "hang" forms of long jumping. It was my un-expert opinion that hitchers seem to jump longer. No, I was told that it didn't matter what you did in the air. The speed at which you come down the runway and the angle at which you take off determine everything as far as distance. I said that hangers seem to catch more air. Someone finally admitted, as I recall, that the hang might catch more air than the hitch -- but that would only mean a few centimeters difference. (I pointed out that even a centimeter is a big difference if it means the difference between gold and silver at the Olympics.)

But besides hangers catching more air, I still have to wonder if hitchers are able to jump longer by doing that hitch. Maybe a "gyroscope" type thing for better balance. At any rate, seeing that jumper in the Commonwealth Games appear to shorten his jump by wiggling around, it made me thing again that what you do in the air DOES have some effect. He was clearly headed out of the landing area, but by coming out of his form, shortened his LJ.

Has anybody ever compiled a list of best hang LJers and best hitch LJers? I think that would be good evidence to back up my point, but I can't find any such lists.

[Guest]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

Unless they've repealed the laws of physics while I was gone, there is nothing you can do in the air to make yourself go farther.

[Guest]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

Are you saying he had a proper landing? If he was doing weird stuff in the air didn't that cause him to land incorrectly? I think the hitch's purpose is to allow the body to be in a position for an effective landing.

[Guest]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

The hitch-kick is used so that at take off, you don't have any stopping motion, you "run through" the board almost completely, as opposed to lowering your center of gravity more significantly when going to hang. The actual hitch kick motion is to keep your body from over-rotating and landing on your face, thus it enables the proper landing you're talking about.


Basically, when you hitch kick, you maintain your speed all the way through the board more so than if you set up for the hang.

[Guest]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

Basically, when you hitch kick, you
>maintain your speed all the way through the
>board more so than if you set up for the hang.

A-HA!!! I said something like that, too. That going into a hitch would help your take off better. Was told that I was wrong.

At any rate, if there is a list of best hitchers and best hangers, I know which one will be better.

[Per Andersen]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

>Basically, when you hitch kick, you maintain your speed all the way through the board more so than if you set up for the hang.

That's equally possible IF you use the Hang correctly. What you described is an inexperienced "Hang" jumper who anticipates the hang and who consequently gets nothing out of the
lead-leg.

[Olegi2]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

Like the High Jump, once an athlete has lost contact with the ground there is nothing that can be done to alter the trajectory of the centre of mass. Of course if the wind is blowing against the jumper it will shorten the distance jumped. One enemy of long jumping is forward rotation at take off and the hitch kick was developed to overcome that, on the principle that although the trajectory of the Centre of mass cannot be altered after take off one part of the body can be made to move by altering the positon of another. The only voluntary movements that can be made after losing contact with the ground are internal compensatory movements(for instance, one part of the body can be lifted by lowering another part; one part of the body can be made to rotate faster by making another part slow down) Note how some high jumpers use the head to make the legs clear the bar. None of that answers the question of whether hitch kickers jump farther than hangers.
Robert Emmiyan, of course, was a hanger, but then we can all quote figures to prove one thing or another.

[tafnut]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

BV,
I remember the thread and it was I who was adament about the 'once you're in the air thing.' The FACT is that once the h velocity and angle of attack are set, there is NOTHING that will affect the arc described by the CG of the body. HOWSOEVER - hitting the board with max h vel and taking off at the best AA is the key. Maybe your question is really: does the preparation for the hitch optimize these two variables, as opposed to the hang. That should NOT be the case, but it may well be in some jumpers. I also agree that the gyrations accomplished by hitchers seems to set them up better for the landing than the hang. So perhaps we need more input from top-level coaches and jumpers on whether THEY have noticed a difference. I learned the hang early on and the hitch just seemed like too much to learn to achieve unsubstantiated improvement.

[jhc68]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

I respectfully disagree with both Isaac Newton andt tafnut... First, Isaac, the idea that nothing that happens in the air after take off can alter the distance of the jump is patently absurd. At the moment of take off the energies applied determine the maximum potential length of the jump, but the jumper's body movements will, to a large degree, influence where the jump actually ends. Landing technique, or lack of it, is critical, as is balance during the hitch-kick or hang. (If you have any doubts about this just take a look and some of Marion J's brutal, painful jumps!) Then, taf, I believe hitch-kicking does not necessarily help in putting a jumper into proper landing position. If the hitch is not completed it hinders landing. It seems to me that the important thing after take off is to maintain balance and upright posture during flight, and that some individuals simply feel more comfortable with one method or the other to maintain balance.

[fucking lane 10]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

I jumped with a single hitch for my career (PB well over 8.20) but my coach wanted me to do the double hitch. We argued about the things things mentioned above, I suggested that once your in the air, you can't get "extra distance" by usiing a double. His arguement was that your hips stay up longer with a second cycle. I argued my landing suffered because I wasn't comfortable landing the opposite way and not getting my legs out ( I wasn't able to do a full second hitch anyway, it was more a wiggle). This was something we played with this in pre season a few times. I came to the conclusion that I was better trying to get the best out of my single than doing something not natural for me. Others who have been succesful at changing were Powell, Walder (used to hang), Pedroso in his early years (WJ), Dilworth (still a bit messy). I honestly believe the "continued running" does help you think of running through the board and not "taking off" which can lead to breaking.

Intersting topic

[jumpmon]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

Fucking Lane 10 has a valid point. It is what is most natural for someone that generally yields the best results. I have done both hang and hitch. Hang was more natural for me and I had better results. As far as being able to increase your distance with either style, physics takes over and there is nothing you can do to increase the distance, but there are several things that can occur to decrease the distance. Over rotation, dropping your feet at landing, and over extension causing you to fall back on the landing to name a few. There's more to jumping than simply running down a runway and leaping into sand which is what a lot of coaches think. This topic could go on forever and is interesting.

[Guest]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

you're kidding me right? of course hitch allows you to jump farther. you get an extra knee drive if nothing else.

[gh]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

Note that in another current thread we have as a guest one of the longest women jumpers ever, Yelena Sinchukova (Russia). She said this today, in case you aren't reading that thread, but had interest in this one:

<<So many Russian jumpers when I was compeeting. We had best team but we all had to do same jump. No longer hitch? we trained to do hang. All of us do this jump but for some maybe this not the best. It was good for me and others but maybe not all.
Now though not enough do hang! More top women can do this jump it is not so fashion now?>>

[Guest]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

I've never seen any definitive evidence on which is the more effective technique. Both are simply to stop over rotating after take-off. I think the athlete should just go with what feels more comfortable to them. The hitchkick is harder than it looks to actually do (I usually ended up spiking myself) and I've always thought that time spent on the technical-side of this element could be better spent on other things. Isn't Lamela a hang guy? And a certain BB? I'll admit I'm not much of an expert on the finer points of LJ techique so will admit my head maybe...

[Guest]

Re: Long jump observation -- more hitch v hang

You can't do anything in the air to make the jump longer, but you can do plenty in the air to make your jump shorter.