Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

[Matt]

10.49/21.34 apart, there has been no improvement in female sprinting for 20+ years. Nobody has broken 22secs for a while - yet look at what has been happening in the men's 200m.

Ashford and Gohr - regular 10.8/10.9 performers - would have the measure of all of today's 100m stars. Conversely, we see more 9.8s and low 9.9s from the men now, which is probably a tenth or so (on average) better than we saw in the 80s and early 90s.

Why is this? It can't all be about PEDs......

[high knees]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

10.49/21.34 apart, there has been no improvement in female sprinting for 20+ years. Nobody has broken 22secs for a while - yet look at what has been happening in the men's 200m.

Ashford and Gohr - regular 10.8/10.9 performers - would have the measure of all of today's 100m stars. Conversely, we see more 9.8s and low 9.9s from the men now, which is probably a tenth or so (on average) better than we saw in the 80s and early 90s.

Why is this? It can't all be about PEDs......

I think it's partially about PED's. Because of the lack of testosterone in women, the effect that PED's can have on women is much greater than that on men. So the lack of them has a much stronger effect on the sprint events. But also, there is a lack of coaching at the college level, and a tendency to overrun the more talented athletes in college to score points which predisposes the sprinters to injury. If Allyson Felix could start, even a little bit, she would be consistant 10.90's and sub 22's. Also, I don't think there are enough races where the top sprinters meet each other. Before, there were sprinters from around the world and now there are just a few here in the U.S. and Jamaica. No big bloc country group of sprinters to contend with. Just my 2 cents.

[jammin]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

10.49/21.34 apart, there has been no improvement in female sprinting for 20+ years. Nobody has broken 22secs for a while - yet look at what has been happening in the men's 200m.

Ashford and Gohr - regular 10.8/10.9 performers - would have the measure of all of today's 100m stars. Conversely, we see more 9.8s and low 9.9s from the men now, which is probably a tenth or so (on average) better than we saw in the 80s and early 90s.

Why is this? It can't all be about PEDs......

I think it's partially about PED's. Because of the lack of testosterone in women, the effect that PED's can have on women is much greater than that on men. So the lack of them has a much stronger effect on the sprint events. But also, there is a lack of coaching at the college level, and a tendency to overrun the more talented athletes in college to score points which predisposes the sprinters to injury. If Allyson Felix could start, even a little bit, she would be consistant 10.90's and sub 22's. Also, I don't think there are enough races where the top sprinters meet each other. Before, there were sprinters from around the world and now there are just a few here in the U.S. and Jamaica. No big bloc country group of sprinters to contend with. Just my 2 cents.

Even with Allyson's poor start, she has had some poor 100m races recently. I think in her last two 100m races in Europe, she either finished last to near dead last.

Other than some good early season times, I am yet to be impressed at 100m. She has another 100m race in Rome on Friday and a stellar 200m race in Sheffield on Sunday.


BTW, just got confirmation that Sherone Simpson will make her return this Sunday in Sheffield in the womens 100m

[Mennisco]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

If Allyson Felix could start, even a little bit, she would be consistant 10.90's and sub 22's.

Ashford was not particularly strong in the starting department, but Pat Connolly managed to fashion her into a solid all-round 100 meter performer......

[kamikaze7]

IMO The real womens 100m record is somewhere closer to 10.90. All those 10.6 and 10.7 we saw in the past were fake

[high knees]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

If Allyson Felix could start, even a little bit, she would be consistant 10.90's and sub 22's.

Ashford was not particularly strong in the starting department, but Pat Connolly managed to fashion her into a solid all-round 100 meter performer......

She was a MUCH better starter than Allyson, and IMO was/is the best female 100m sprinter in U.S. history.

[kevinsdad]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

Why is this? It can't all be about PEDs......

Why not?

[tandfman]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

Why is this? It can't all be about PEDs......

Why not?

Because Ashford was clean. Next question?

[Speedster]

Allyson's starts have cost her a chance in her last two races.

I think she is good enough to make the 100m final but what effect will the four 100m rounds in Osaka have on her. Is this the first time she's doubled in a major? She handled it ok at the US Trials but I think the racing could be harder in Osaka, especially with a motivated Richards only running the 200m.

VC has doubled in previous worlds and Olympics but this will be the first time Felix goes into a 200m in the same position. Kersee prepares his athletes for this, I just wonder if her chances in the 200m are effected.

[jammin]

Sunday's race should answer alot of questions regarding all 3 ladies fitness level in the 200m.

Felix vs Veronica vs Sanya.

I am sure if Sherone Simpson was healthy enough, should would be in there also. I do strongly believe that a healthy Sherone running a good/great curve would be able to beat all three ladies.

[Speedster]

Sunday's race is going to be great, good to see no one hiding and giving us a chance to see what's possible in Osaka. VC's 200m at the Jamaican Champs saw her come from behind to win, which is unusual as she tends to hit the bend hard and then and hold on.

Would be great to see Sherone taking on that line up by the time Osaka comes around. It was reported on the IAAF forums that Sherone is leaning towards the 200m, so she must be strong and not have missed that much training as its harder to race three rounds of the 200m than race through four of the 100m on a lighter preparation.

[Mennisco]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

[quote=high knees]

If Allyson Felix could start, even a little bit, she would be consistant 10.90's and sub 22's.

Ashford was not particularly strong in the starting department, but Pat Connolly managed to fashion her into a solid all-round 100 meter performer......

She was a MUCH better starter than Allyson, and IMO was/is the best female 100m sprinter in U.S. history.[/quote:t3fc78gr]

According to Jesse Owens, she was "pound for pound, the world's fastest human". And she became a much better starter than Allyson, by working with the coach Allyson left. If you've read these threads much, you'd know how I've been taken to task for extolling Ashford's abilities, some would say, to absurd excess.:lol:

[CookyMonzta]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

[quote=Mennisco]

If Allyson Felix could start, even a little bit, she would be consistant 10.90's and sub 22's.

Ashford was not particularly strong in the starting department, but Pat Connolly managed to fashion her into a solid all-round 100 meter performer......

She was a MUCH better starter than Allyson, and IMO was/is the best female 100m sprinter in U.S. history.

According to Jesse Owens, she was "pound for pound, the world's fastest human". And she became a much better starter than Allyson, by working with the coach Allyson left. If you've read these threads much, you'd know how I've been taken to task for extolling Ashford's abilities, some would say, to absurd excess.:lol:[/quote:jrle6c7i]
Join the club, bub. Let it be said that Jesse's observations of Evelyn came, I believe, after what she did to the DDR at the 1979 World Cup. He died in 1980, but I can imagine he would have said a lot more if he saw she she did in the years 1981 to 1984, 1986 and 1988, not to mention her 11.07/22.47 from as late as 1992.

Speaking of which, I find it quite alarming that today's sprinters are struggling even to run what a 35-year-old Ashford ran that year (a year in which she didn't run that many 200s). Could it be that they don't have someone like her, or Torrence, or Devers in her prime, or even Ottey (who was even faster at 35), pulling them to faster times?

It almost reminds me of the late-1970s and early-1980s, especially with regard to U.S. women's sprinting. 11.2x/22.9x was very much acceptable to most of them, but not to Evelyn, especially when you had the DDR's best running 10.9x or 11.0x and anything from 21.7x to 22.2x. The DDR and much of the communist bloc (dirty as many of them were) pulled Evelyn to faster times, to such a point where she was able to beat them on a regular basis, and snap their stonghold on sprinting. With her came Gwen (10.82/21.72), Gail (10.82/12.33), Val (10.99/21.81/48.83) and FloJo (10.49#/10.61/21.34) to follow in her footsteps.

We don't seem to have anyone today pulling the rest of the bunch out of a zone that now seems mediocre at best. When was the last time anyone broke 22.00?

[Mennisco]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

Join the club, bub. Let it be said that Jesse's observations of Evelyn came, I believe, after what she did to the DDR at the 1979 World Cup. He died in 1980, but I can imagine he would have said a lot more if he saw she she did in the years 1981 to 1984, 1986 and 1988, not to mention her 11.07/22.47 from as late as 1992.

I was there when the "club" started, watching her mow down Gohr while seated at the finish line in Montreal, then garnering her autograph in a Montreal subway station a few hours later. :lol:

[CookyMonzta]

Re: Female sprinting - stalled/fallen standards

Join the club, bub. Let it be said that Jesse's observations of Evelyn came, I believe, after what she did to the DDR at the 1979 World Cup. He died in 1980, but I can imagine he would have said a lot more if he saw she she did in the years 1981 to 1984, 1986 and 1988, not to mention her 11.07/22.47 from as late as 1992.

I was there when the "club" started, watching her mow down Gohr while seated at the finish line in Montreal, then garnering her autograph in a Montreal subway station a few hours later. :lol:

I watched that race on TV, and it was obvious to me that the 1980s would be hers.

I take it you have the autograph on your wall in a picture frame, no? That signature is immensely priceless now, given the different circumstances that have come over the only 2 U.S. 100 sprinters faster than her (namely Flo and Marion).