London GP men's 400

[Johnny Walker Red]

Is Merritt fading a bit in the stretch (compared to Wariner) because he is starting too fast or because he isn't training as hard...or both?

I have the feeling that if Merritt trained as hard a Wariner that he'd be running 43.4 to 43.8...because he has more speed, and more natural talent.

Wariner is much more talented at the 400 than Merritt. His 43.5 from yesterday is probably faster than Merritt will ever run - unless he makes drastic changes. I still have little doubt JW can run 19.9 + in the right race. I have serious doubts that Merritt can run faster than 43.7 no matter what he does. Wariner is a definite threat to take down MJ's 400 record. Obviously he has tons of talent but many, many people are scared to give him his due because of his complexion. He's got all the speed he needs to run a WR in the 400. Look at Butch Reynolds in the 200. Hardly an all-time great.

[eldrick]

why didn't you say you were going ???

me & taf met up & it wouda been nice to meet you as well !

[AS]

Having seen this race live in person (a big thrill as I've never seen Wariner run before), I must say JW was super-impressive. He was so comfortable and relaxed despite being under significant pressure from Merritt.

On the Aussie front, it looked like Steffensen was trying some slightly different tactics, pushing it hard from the gun, rather than his usual 200-300m surge. He appeared to suffer for it over the last 120m. Running himself into some useful shape i expect though. Would be very surprised if he doesn't make the WC final again.

[eldrick]

[quote=BYU grad]

I have the feeling that if Merritt trained as hard a Wariner that he'd be running 43.4 to 43.8...because he has more speed, and more natural talent.

Wariner has more natural talent in the 400m than Merritt.
You are confusing your races. Merritt has more 200m speed and talent than Wariner.

Yes, that's a valid point, but isn't there another point that a different kind/intensity/ volume of training could make it possible for Merritt to run stronger down the stretch?[/quote:dnvi6f47]

that sounds spot-on

he has more than enough 200 speed - close to 19.90

change training & lose some of that speed, maybe dropping down to "only" 20.00, but better endurance as compensator

after all, likes of butch & quincey never came close to 20.00 & they ran damn fast for 400 !!!

[kamikaze7]

JW is the best technician I have seen in recent times. Shares that attribute with Edwin Moses. He has savvy, he runs very relaxed, tactically astute. Clearly knows how to train. Hence his consistency and ablity to avoid injury. His decision to focus on the 200m this year was brilliant. If a runner keeps winning he can lose motivation. The 200 keeps him hungry and motivates him to attack his weaknesses.

[George P.]

Yes, that's a valid point, but isn't there another point that a different kind/intensity/ volume of training could make it possible for Merritt to run stronger down the stretch?

One of the cool things about the sport is the possibility that some performer who is merely "accomplished" will suddenly rise to the next level -- whether from coaching or training or switching to a new brand of corn flakes (please don't read more into the latter figure of speech than I intend).

Who would have predicted, in Spring '04, that J. Wariner was suddenly to take the "quarter-mile" world by storm? Not me (I thought his team Williamson was the Next Big Thing).

[BYU grad]

I have the feeling that if Merritt trained as hard a Wariner that he'd be running 43.4 to 43.8...because he has more speed, and more natural talent.

Wariner has more natural talent in the 400m than Merritt.
You are confusing your races. Merritt has more 200m speed and talent than Wariner.

Yes, that's a valid point, but isn't there another point that a different kind/intensity/ volume of training could make it possible for Merritt to run stronger down the stretch?

[az2004]

taylor was fantastic at indy, all the rounds, and in the finals merritt and he had a great head to head struggle...


interesting if anyone knows what taylor has been doing, as his indy form hsn't been replicated...

laying low for osaka??

wariner, clearly is building, with more yet to come....merritt has a ton of fast times, but i wonder if he's got MORE faster oners for osaka..

right now, i'd go wariner, taylor, merritt...

[Mennisco]

maybe perhaps wallace spearmon or x-man with a bit of 400m training?

http://www.mensa.org/

http://www.fakecrap.com/densa.html

You might try "detritus" as an answer. :P

[speed101]

JW is obviously Clyde Hart's athlete.

Hart believes--and will tell anyone who asks--that having aerobic strength and a race strategy aimed at relatively even splits are the keys to success in the 400.

I remember an interview with him not long ago in which he discussed how he and MJ had developed that strategy together during the latter's career, and pointed out that--even during MJ's world record in Seville--a number of people in the 400 field actually ran a substantially faster first 200 than MJ did.

Hart obviously regarded opening that fast as a stupid strategy, and he said so. His remark was "You will never defeat Michael Johnson in a 400 by beating him to the 200 meter mark."

Which is true. MJ's jets always came on in the turn. When you consider the kind of 200 meter speed he had, you really realize how slow an opening 21.00+ must have felt to him.

JW doesn't have MJ's jets, but he does seem to have MJ's strength. I don't imagine JW worries much about where the other runners are until somewhere around 325.

He may ultimately run into another athlete who can beat him by blazing a hard first 200-300 and then hanging on. But I doubt Merritt has that kind of blazing ability.

^^^^^^^
maybe perhaps wallace spearmon or x-man with a bit of 400m training?

[Mennisco]

Wariner is surrounded by "better" talent?... is that possible?

Carter, Merritt, Clement seem to be "on paper" more talented as far as 200 skills and youth go. Wariner, as we have seen in the 200, is no speed merchant, but has great strength and savvy.

If he's a no-speed merchant, I need to place an order immediately.

[Mennisco]

[You're right Paul, we should all pity poor Jeremy, who'll top out at 43.4, when he hits the structure parallel to the floor.

Anyway, "we" know JW is really an 800 guy, struggling -- against nature and the odds -- to race a respectable one-lap. We know that, right? :wink:

Where's Zat0pek? :wink:

[George P.]

[You're right Paul, we should all pity poor Jeremy, who'll top out at 43.4, when he hits the structure parallel to the floor.

Anyway, "we" know JW is really an 800 guy, struggling -- against nature and the odds -- to race a respectable one-lap. We know that, right? :wink:

Edit - jeremyp seems to know that :roll:

[jeremyp]

Wariner is surrounded by "better" talent?... is that possible?

Carter, Merritt, Clement seem to be "on paper" more talented as far as 200 skills and youth go. Wariner, as we have seen in the 200, is no speed merchant, but has great strength and savvy.

[Mennisco]

wariner will hit the ceiling at 43.4.

goodness that is one freaking high ceiling to be hitting!

Wariner listens to Hart. Apart from his obvious talent he is a very "coachable" athlete, and Hart is the best at 400. Richards has shown a tendency to not "listen" and it has cost her (Helsinki 05, and possibly Indianaopilis 07). Williamson I don't know about! Wariner seems very disciplined, and rarely makes mistakes, which helps when surrounded by "better" talent.

Wariner is surrounded by "better" talent?... is that possible?

He must mean Sanya. :P

You're right Paul, we should all pity poor Jeremy, who'll top out at 43.4, when he hits the structure parallel to the floor.