Ranking Discrepancy

This drives me nuts:

Men's Discus
Fazskas beats Alekna 4-2 in meets, but because of 'honors won', but since Alekna won WC and GP Final, he's #1.
Men's 400
Washington beats Young 4-1 in meets, but Young wins WC and GPF, so Young is #1, right? NO!

Obviously there's a huge difference between a 1-4 record and a 2-4 record.

If you win the two biggest meets of the season and run your SB is the biggest meet of the year, shouldn't the 'honors won' take precedence?

In defense of the Rankers, Washington's record overall WAS much more consistent.

[Jon]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

I agree with you hear. I haven't seen the rankings myself (anyone who does have them, feel free to pass them on!), but to rank Young ahead of Washington is shocking. Tyree wins EVERY outdoor race all year (and this is after becoming world indoor champion, I hasten to add), and then finished 2nd in his biggest race. OK, Jerome rose to the challenge - fair play to him, but if you ask ANY educated T&F fan who was the most dominant figure in the men's 400m this year, chances are most of them (if not all) will say Tyree.

The GPF (when used to consider the leading men's 400m athlete) is somewhat irrelevant, as Tyree wasn't even in that race. It was won outside of 45seconds - a time that Tyree (in 2003 form) was well capable of!

Going even further, Jerome broke 45s only 5 times, ending the year with a SB of 44.50 and 10 wins under his belt (along with five 2nd-places and two 3rd-place finishes).
Tyree, on the other hand, ran 8 sub-45s times, had a winning streak of 11 races, and then one 2nd-place finish (admittedly in the most important race of the season).

OK, so Tyree had just one more win than Jerome - big whoop, huh? But look at it percentage-wise, and you'll see that Jerome won 59% of his races, and Tyree won 92% of his. Even if you give Jerome an extra 30% bonus for winning the WCh, he still falls short!!

IMHO, it's daylight robbery for Tyree, but then again - the rankings have been printed now... what can we do but speculate*







* unless, of course, they've done this on purpose to get us to talk about it... hmmmm.... (in which case, we've fallen right into their trap!)

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

You misread - Tyree IS first - I was merely pointing out the precedent set in the men's Discus. Why DON'T you have the rankings? Surely you subscribe to T&FN and sunsequently signed up for eTN and therefore got the rankings Friday?

[Jon]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

Ohhh....! LOL.


Yet ANOTHER reason (gee, I'm losing count...and getting bored in saying it) for having an edit function!

No, I don't subscribe to TFN because I'm a UK resident and it would cost loads for a start, plus they'd be sent to me a few weeks after it had gone to print, so the news wouldn't really be 'news' any more - which (for a publication with 'news' in the title) would seem fairly pointless in me subscribing to. Athletics Weekly is a much more suitable publication for my needs! :-)

I tried subscribing to eTN, but you need a subscription number, so no joy there, either.

If anyone would be so kind to forward me the eTN (I'm sure Garry wouldn't mind just this once!!) with all the rankings in, then I shall be eternally grateful! My address is [email protected]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

May I endorse Jon's sentiments, T&FN is notoriously difficult to purchase in the UK. The periodical can only be purchased in the UK through the sole distributor in the UK - namely COMAG, who in their infinite wisdom, recently decided that T&FN would only be distributed to news stands in the London area. If you don't live in the London area (I live in Wales - Colin Jackson province, over 200 miles away), then the only alternative is to take out an annual subscription with COMAG for £41.00 (over $70) a year. But COMAG receive T&FN by surface mail, so I get my copy around four weeks later than you guys in the US, AND because I subscribe through COMAG, I don’t qualify for eTN! So come on GH, give me a quote for a T&FN subscription at Airmail rates (my COMAG subscription lapses at the end of the year – and I’ve even had to ask them for a renewal notice!). And could some saviour send the eTN that Jon and myself are dying to get our hands on. My e-mail address is [email protected].

[bhall]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

Air Mail subs info is available at http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn-cg ... ds=&next=5

Right now is likely one of the best times to subscribe with the Euro (so don't know the pound exchange right now) being very strong against the dollar (1.20Eu to $1). Makes $81 for a 1 year air mail sub come out to ~67.5 Euros.

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

Dear Jon and Huw - I'd love to help with the eTN forward, but it's copyrighted material and only Ben could send it.

[Jon]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

>Air Mail subs info is available at
>http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn-cgi/store/com
>erce.cgi?product=subs_tfn&keywords=&next=5

Righ
>now is likely one of the best times to subscribe
>with the Euro (so don't know the pound exchange
>right now) being very strong against the dollar
>(1.20Eu to $1). Makes $81 for a 1 year air mail
>sub come out to ~67.5 Euros.




$81 converts to around £47, which makes it almost £4 per issue, which (by the time we receive it) would be full of "news" that we'd already know, thanks to the internet and Athletics Weekly.

Ben, surely you could forward me a copy of eTN...?

[bhall]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

>$81 converts to around £47, which
>makes it almost £4 per issue, which (by the time
>we receive it) would be full of "news" that
>we'd already know, thanks to the internet and
>Athletics Weekly.

It is unfortunate that many people still view Track & Field News subscription as *just* a paper publication that is mailed 12 times a year. We are working very hard to change that perception. Today a T&FN subscription is a paper magazine published monthly, an email results and features newsletter published 40+ times a year (so far in 2003 we've published 56 email newsletters, including daily results, splits, etc. from Paris and several special editions much of which you could not have gotten off the Net). By subscribing you also help us maintain this website, message board, lists, contests, and future developments. I think Garry's note that went out with the AOY and World Rankings release puts makes my point very nicely:

"In our ongoing efforts to improve our services to you at all times, attached please find something new: an advance peek at the Athlete Of The Year voting and the World Rankings for '03.

Your December issue, with all this material in its complete form, is already winging its way to you, but since news travels faster than the mail in this modern e-world in which we live, we wanted to ensure that you, all the loyal eTrack subscribers, got the news first, and at the same time. So please enjoy this sneak preview: we know you'll really enjoy the genuine article when it reaches you."

[Powell]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

I understand that you work hard on producing the magazine and newsletter etc., but the point that Jon made and I would like to second is that it makes little sense for someone outside North America to subscribe to the paper version of the magazine. As for the e-mail newsletter, that will be useful to any T&F fan anywhere, but I for one would not be willing to pay the regular magazine subscription fee for the e-mails only. Wouldn't it be possible to offer subscriptions to the e-mail newsletter only, at a rate substantially lower than the normal subscription ? After all, printing the magazine and mailing it overseas does cost real money, but sending out the newsletter to an additional reader entails virtually no extra cost to T&FN. Wouldn't it be a way to make some extra $$$ for you ? Or are you afraid too many people would cancel their regular subscriptions if this became an option ?

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

I would bet that if T&FN were to offer eTN at a reduced rate, the print magazine subscription numbers would be cut in half. As much as I like the magazine, the new TN is well worth the print price alone.

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

I frankly think that it is critical that the printed version of T&FN stay viable. There should NOT be a separate price for the email version: one subscription rate for both, period. The magazine has survived since 1948 and I think its extremly important for it to survive (one hopes) another 55 years.

[Powell]

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

Sorry, but I just don't get your reasoning. Just because a magazine has existed for 45 years (actually it's 55), it doesn't mean it has to exist forever. If people are more interested in an e-mail newsletter, and it allows the editorial stuff to make money (and it has to be A LOT cheaper producing eT&FN than the printed version), so be it.
As it is now, T&FN and eT&FN are in essence two separate products, so why shouldn't it be possible to buy one without the other?

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

>Sorry, but I just don't get your reasoning. Just because a magazine has existed
>for 45 years (actually it's 55), it doesn't mean it has to exist forever. If
>people are more interested in an e-mail newsletter, and it allows the editorial
>stuff to make money (and it has to be A LOT cheaper producing eT&FN than the
>printed version), so be it.
As it is now, T&FN and eT&FN are in essence two
>separate products, so why shouldn't it be possible to buy one without the
>other?>>

Because advertisers aren't interested in supporting websites, generally speaking. No Ad revenue, no magazine. No magazine, no website.

Re: Ranking Discrepancy

three years ago, this would have been the most assinine comment available, neverless it only being false but less forceful currently. I feel T&F News does not leverage their Online Marketing ability well at all. There is money to be made by securing a few sponsors on banner ads in high traffic portions of the site.

All of you snobs may turn your noses up at LetsRun.com, yet nobody will argue the dominance of their message board web traffic. I haven't asked the Johnson brothers, but their traffic is obvously pretty high, although their marketing methods in advertising could use a little bit more consultation themselves...

It seems someone new in T&FNews has forced the gang to start the eTN newsletter, likely partially on the merits of the old school T-and-F Listserver Newsletter of '95 fame. Whether or not the electronic method is to replace the printed version is not for me to say, although I definitely doubt it, (nothing like having the printed mag in your hand, nothing...), but the fact that more people view this website than subscribers to the printed mag, is a statistic that will only be perilously ignored much further.

I see a variety of channels for revenue, not the least of: Advertisers getting dual medium rates for advertising, web only advertising--and here's the kicker, it wont have to be exclusively track oriented-eg: an automobile, a reduced watered down online magazine for a fee, collaborating with Mirko Jalava who has the best results web site in the world: www.tilastopaja.net to provide results same day, etc.. Well, I digress. Looking forward to receiving the mag in the mail to see all of the Rankings.