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What if they gave a World Championships and nobody came?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by richxx87
    This is like that Brad Pitt movie Babylon, where everybody is hamstrung by miscommunication...
    Babel.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Powell
      Yup, have to side with gh on this.

      But then again, I've always wondered why they generally charge so much less for tickets at major indoor championships. The indoor venues have MUCH smaller capacity (rarely over 10,000) - if anything, I thought they'd have to charge more per person to break even, especially with extra costs such as heating and lighting the venue.
      Smaller venue for indoors plus smaller fields plus fewer days, so much smaller overhead costs. Heating is not necessarily more expensive than air conditioning. (If I recall correctly, the sudden need to install AC in many locations helped add to the Gothenburg overruns.) Lighting is cheeper indoors than outdoors. Lots of little things add up.

      If the overhead cost per spectator remains the same for outdoors compared to indoors, the total would be so much less for indoors that the city would be more willing to bear the cost.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by dj
        Smaller venue for indoors plus smaller fields plus fewer days, so much smaller overhead costs.
        Of course the total cost is smaller, but comparing a 9-day WCh in a 50,000-seat stadium with a 3-day WIC in a 10,000-seat venue, the former will have 15 times as many tickets to sell. And the difference in prices is big, too - comparing the championships I've been to, they generally charge 3-5 times more PER DAY at the outdoor events. I doubt the overhead really is 50 times lower for the indoor championships, or even anywhere close to that factor.

        So it must be one of the two: either the WIC are a big-time money loser (in effect someone must be subsidizing them), or WCh organizers make loads of money.
        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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        • #79
          Originally posted by kuha
          "The ticket prices (from $45/day to $200/day in Osaka) are beyond absurd. For most of the 3rd world countries with athletes involved, those prices are half a year's salary! If a city wants to host it, they'll either have to keep costs down or subsidize ticket prices to something reasonable. I'd suggest no more than $20 for a week-long pass for nosebleed seats and around $100 for a week's pass for prime seats."

          What did a decent day's hotel cost in Osaka? I'd bet at least $300.
          Try $89/night, 20min JR ride from Nagai.

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          • #80
            2008 IAAF World Champs (Valencia):

            The total estimated budget for the whole event is above 12 million Euros (12,164,641 Euros) with the Local Council, the Regional Government and the centralised Ministry all contributing. From this budget just less than 5 million Euros correspond to work and refurbishments on the arena.

            Regarding the media impact it has been calculated that more than 450 million tv viewers will be able to follow the competitions on 40 television channels, there will be more than 400 accredited journalists, the 40 hotels in the city will occupied and some 6,000 spectators will be able to follow the events in the Velodrome each day. Between athletes, coaches and technical teams the total number of participants will be greater than 1,200 people.
            http://www.rfea.es/competi/2008valencia ... p?n=17&i=I

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            • #81
              How much profit/debt did Edmonton get?

              You think Toronto would bid for something like this? They did have the World Hoops (1993). If it's Toronto 2015, I'm there, dude! (oops, they need a Stadium!).

              Or Vancouver? Or........Alright, we know Montreal's answer!

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Alan Shank
                I guess anybody who talks about "dead time" in the WC isn't watching any field events. My problem is that there is often too much going on to follow it all the way I would like. If you want to go out to get some food/drink or relieve yourself, you have to miss something. If all you care about is the track finals, I guess there's dead time, but there sure isn't any for me and the people I sit with.
                Yes, but you have to remember that we're talking about filling a 50,000 seat stadium. You're not going to do that with just track fans, especially ones who pay rapt attention to the field events. The running events are what people come to see, and one way to attract more fans, particularly at these kinds of ticket prices, is to have more of those - and more of those that matter (i.e. fewer preliminary heats) - on each days program. I'm all for making the field events easier for fans to understand, which would incluide better explainations in programs and stadium announcements (and Garry does a great job of this within the limitations presented to him), as well as much better and more complete and visable scoreboard information, but you're still not going to get people to buy tickets to see a shotput, but you will for a 100 or 1500 or 10k.

                One way to get more people out would be to shorten the meet and concentrate the finals on weekends. Weekday nights are work nights for most of the local people (except maybe in Europe, where people seem to be able to take much of the summer off) and no matter what is happening in the stadium a lot of folks won't buy tickets to sit there until 11 PM or later when they have to get up at 6 or 7 the next morning. So, as many people have suggested here, make the fields smaller, cut down on the rounds and bring back at least one, preferably 2, off days. This would, IMO, make it a better meet for all involved. But in order to do this the IAAF has to get out of its mindset that the Worlds are some sort of mini-Olympics, and would have to demand and expect less money (and therefore less risk) out of local organizers, and I just don't see that happening anytime soon.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Alan Shank
                  I guess anybody who talks about "dead time" in the WC isn't watching any field events. My problem is that there is often too much going on to follow it all the way I would like. If you want to go out to get some food/drink or relieve yourself, you have to miss something. If all you care about is the track finals, I guess there's dead time, but there sure isn't any for me and the people I sit with.
                  Cheers,
                  Alan Shank
                  I always recall the 1984 Olympics when the boycott caused many early heats (especially on the women's side) to be scratched. I believe at one morning session, there were literally no track events for about two hours between the first and second round of the Men's 200 meters. This forced about 50,000+ fans to focus on two or three field events. And many of the folks in the stands had never been to a meet before and had no clue. I was on the TAFN tour but tour members were scattered about the stadium because of the lottery. My companion and I spent most of our time explaining to neighboring seat holders what was going on in the field.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by trackhead
                    Originally posted by kuha
                    "The ticket prices (from $45/day to $200/day in Osaka) are beyond absurd. For most of the 3rd world countries with athletes involved, those prices are half a year's salary! If a city wants to host it, they'll either have to keep costs down or subsidize ticket prices to something reasonable. I'd suggest no more than $20 for a week-long pass for nosebleed seats and around $100 for a week's pass for prime seats."

                    What did a decent day's hotel cost in Osaka? I'd bet at least $300.
                    Try $89/night, 20min JR ride from Nagai.
                    That surprises me, but good for you! Was your experience typical, or the exception, I wonder...?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      All depends on how you define "decent" hotel; what's acceptable to a 20-something w/ a backpack obviously isn't acceptable to a 50-something with a mate who's just along for the ride and better have a few basic amenities like room service, a pool, in-house restaurant, etc.

                      For the latter, can't imagine anybody found anything for less than a couple of hundred bucks.

                      Japan is famous for econo-box "business" hotels that can be somewhat reminiscent of a private room... on a train!

                      Some journos I know got a steal of a deal for about $21 a night in Osaka... one catch, as they found out later, was that the doors were locked from midnight to 06:00, and getting out for the marathon was quite an adventure!

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Ha!

                        As a BASIC rule of thumb, I'd advise against ANY $21 a night hotel, anywhere!

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                        • #87
                          No kidding, kuha. I don't know what my threshold is, but I'm sure it's higher than $21.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Powell
                            Originally posted by dj
                            Smaller venue for indoors plus smaller fields plus fewer days, so much smaller overhead costs.
                            Of course the total cost is smaller, but comparing a 9-day WCh in a 50,000-seat stadium with a 3-day WIC in a 10,000-seat venue, the former will have 15 times as many tickets to sell. And the difference in prices is big, too - comparing the championships I've been to, they generally charge 3-5 times more PER DAY at the outdoor events. I doubt the overhead really is 50 times lower for the indoor championships, or even anywhere close to that factor.

                            So it must be one of the two: either the WIC are a big-time money loser (in effect someone must be subsidizing them), or WCh organizers make loads of money.
                            Also in the in/out equation is the number of athletes: it's about 3x more for an outdoor (roughly 1800 vs 600), and it has become pretty much standard, I believe, for host cities to be thinking about picking up a lot of the airfare and housing costs for the incoming. Think of what the bill for that is! 1200 more airfares (athletes only, ignoring functionairies), and let's say 600x5 nights vs 1800x12 nights=3000 nights vs. 21,600!

                            So you're also now talking 9000 meals vs. 65,000!

                            LOC (local organizing committee) also bears the burden of flying in all the IAAF technical and support staffs, and housing and feeding (to a certain extent) them. Again 5 nights vs. 12, and support added for all the long throws and road events. These things grow on you exponentially!

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by tandfman
                              No kidding, kuha. I don't know what my threshold is, but I'm sure it's higher than $21.
                              WAY back in the mid-1970s, when I would drive from home to grad school (2/3s of the way across the country), I took pride in staying in motels that cost a single-digit: less than $10 per night. Those places were the bottom of the barrel then, and the dollar is now worth considerably less than 1/2 of what it was then...so, no, there will be no $21 rat-traps for me...

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