It's not the end of the year yet

[Guest]

Howdy,
Have you noticed that the year is not over yet? Couldn't you guys wait one more month for the annual rankings? Or you consider November and December part of the next season? New Australian record in 50K walk, New African women's javelin record, South East Asian Games etc.. are just few things that happened this weekend.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

SEAG is a JV meet.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

The meets & results you have mentioned do not modify WRanking.

[Powell]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

>The meets & results you have mentioned do not modify WRanking.

OK, maybe they don't this time... Still, chances are one of these years someone will set a marathon WR in Fukuoka in December and make T&FN look silly. I agree with Lefteris - athletes of the year should not be selected before the year is actually over.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

"OK, maybe they don't this time... Still, chances are one of these years someone will set a marathon WR in Fukuoka in December and make T&FN look silly. I agree with Lefteris - athletes of the year should not be selected before the year is actually over."
In fact marathon ranking will appear in next issue.

[Powell]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

>In fact marathon ranking will appear in next >issue.

I know that. The point is that they don't give marathoners a chance to earn AOY honors in December (as opposed to just earning places in event rankings).

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

Good point.

Lets say a marathoner wins the Boston Marathon in April and the World Championship Gold in September. Both with good solid times including the year leader but not the WR. He gets ranked #1 in the marathon by T&FN but only 3rd in the AOY rankings.

Then after T&FN award the athlete of the year award to some middle distance runner the same marathoner sets a spectacular WR in the Marathon at Fukuoka in December. In hind sight the marathoner would have been voted AOY but now he can't.

Other similar scenarios could take place in event rankings especially in the marathon or distance races which are competed in all year. (i.e same scenario but the marathoner gets 2nd in the WC in a close race gets ranked second in the event then beats the World Champ in a WR race in December and so would have merited the #1 ranking.)

What is T&FN remody for these scenarios?

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

>Good point.

Lets say a marathoner wins the Boston Marathon in April and the
>World Championship Gold in September. Both with good solid times including the
>year leader but not the WR. He gets ranked #1 in the marathon by T&FN but only
>3rd in the AOY rankings.

Then after T&FN award the athlete of the year award
>to some middle distance runner the same marathoner sets a spectacular WR in the
>Marathon at Fukuoka in December. In hind sight the marathoner would have been
>voted AOY but now he can't.

Other similar scenarios could take place in
>event rankings especially in the marathon or distance races which are competed
>in all year. (i.e same scenario but the marathoner gets 2nd in the WC in a
>close race gets ranked second in the event then beats the World Champ in a WR
>race in December and so would have merited the #1 ranking.)

What is T&FN
>remody for these scenarios?


So when was the last time there was a world record or even a WR attempt at Fukuoka?

[Powell]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

I'm not saying it's highly likely... but it IS possible. Deciding in advance that nothing happening in the last 1.5 months of the year can affect the rankings is a bad idea in principle, even if leads to actual problems only once in 20 years.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

"So when was the last time there was a world record or even a WR attempt at Fukuoka?"

Fukuoka regularly has some of the faster marathon times of the year and the course is condusive to fast times so a WR or a world leading time is always a possibility there.

Derek Clayton set a WR there in 1967 and Rob De Castella did in 1981, so the precedent does exist.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

>"So when was the last time there was a world record or even a WR attempt at
>Fukuoka?"

Fukuoka regularly has some of the faster marathon times of the
>year and the course is condusive to fast times so a WR or a world leading time
>is always a possibility there.

Derek Clayton set a WR there in 1967 and Rob
>De Castella did in 1981, so the precedent does exist.

At least it did 22 years ago. Not like they ever bring in the Khannouchis, Tergats, or Gebs of the world anymore.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

"At least it did 22 years ago. Not like they ever bring in the Khannouchis, Tergats, or Gebs of the world anymore."

They always produce top performances at Fukuoka. Look at the winning times the past 12 years, including this year with 3 runners under 2:08 and another 4 under 2:09. Africa does not produce all the top marathoners.

Fukuoka Winning Times

1992 2:09:04
1993 2:08:51
1994 2:09:45
1995 2:09:30
1996 2:10:48
1997 2:07:28
1998 2:08:42
1999 2:07:54
2000 2:06:51
2001 2:09:25
2002 2:09:13
2003 2:07:52

11 out of the last 12 races have been won in under 2:10, 6 under 2:09 and 3 under 2:08.

Name me other marathons with that type of history over the past 12 years for producing fast times.

Your list will be very short.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

As an American, the marathons I would love to win in order are:

1) Olympics
2) World Championships
3) Boston Marathon
4) New York City Marathon
5) Fukuoka
6) Chicago / London (tie)
7) Rotterdam / Berlin (tie)

The money may be better else where but Fukuoka is legendary and consistantly one of the top marathons in the world and has been that way for many decades.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

"I know that. The point is that they don't give marathoners a chance to earn AOY honors in December (as opposed to just earning places in event rankings)."
I disagree again. In 1981 Rob De Castella broke the WR in Fukuoka but he was no better than 16th in AOY ballot.
How many chances did Takaoka & Co. have to break the WR in this year competition? Very, very, very few, I suppose.

[Guest]

Re: It's not the end of the year yet

Sorry, Fukuoka has lost a monster chunk of its significance (and cachet) the last few years. Once the bulk of the world's best started running for the bucks in Chicago, NYC and Berlin, the Japanese race got marginalized, since so few consider doubling back there. Even those rare ones who have chosen to run WC/OG instead of fall big-money don't show up in droves either. Let go of the past.