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**26mi235** · 10-27-2007, 03:36 AM

The A and B situation is not the same as the WCs, which will complicate the selection process (USATF) will probably use a method of maximizing the number, then go by finishing order. Thus, if Only one A, then the trials winner goes if they have a B or better. With two qualified (and accepting), then the trials winner needs an A I think, as AB and AAB are not allowed, just AAA, AA, A, B. Someone correct me if I am wrong (gh?). I have just going from what I remember of the discussion last time and the few comments about it being different for the OG than for WCs.

**Tilaoy** · 10-27-2007, 05:33 AM

Posted on USATF Last week....No "B's" if "A's

Posted on USATF.ORG this week.
NO "B's" if "A's" are available!

Track & Field

In the event that a non Olympic "A" standard athlete places in a position that would make the Olympic Team at the U.S. Olympic Team Trials - Track & Field - the nominations to the Olympic Team will be awarded to up to three athletes per gender who have achieved the Olympic "A" standard, based on rank order of finish at the U.S. Olympic Team Trials - Track & Field.

If no athlete(s) from the U.S. Olympic Team Trials - Track & Field has achieved the Olympic "A" standard by the conclusion of their event - the highest place finisher at the U.S. Olympic Team Trials - Track & Field, with the Olympic "B" standard will be the sole nominee to the 2008 Olympic Team in that event.

If no athletes meet the Olympic "A" or "B" standards in a given event, no athletes will be nominated to the U.S. Olympic Team in that event.

**26mi235** · 10-27-2007, 05:53 AM

Re: Posted on USATF Last week....No "B's" if &quot

Originally posted by Tilaoy

Posted on USATF.ORG this week.
NO "B's" if "A's" are available!

Track & Field

In the event that a non Olympic "A" standard athlete places in a position that would make the Olympic Team at the U.S. Olympic Team Trials - Track & Field - the nominations to the Olympic Team will be awarded to up to three athletes per gender who have achieved the Olympic "A" standard,

This is not very clear -- can't these people learn to write so that there is only one logical interpretation of the criteria and that its meaning is clear?

Let us say that in the finals of some event the order is B, B, B, A, B, B, B. Now, under standard procedures, the fourth athlete does not normally qualify. So, the predicate does not seem to be met and the first athlete with the B goes. Given this situation, it is not a clearly enunciated rule.

Can others weigh in here. In fact, I think it can be parsed to imply that B, B, B, A, A, A, A, A also results in only the B athlete going. Of course, they may have some definition of the terms somewhere that clarifies it but to me it is not clear. Furthermore, since there are clear delineations that would have provided the interpretation that any A goes before a B (if they competed at the trials?) and those delineations were not used, I would guess that a judge using the logic of contract law would infer that in case 1 and maybe even in case two the first B goes.

Words do not mean what you want them to mean, they mean what they say.

gh · 10-27-2007, 01:25 PM

Seems completely clear to me (seriously), that BBBAAA would result in AAA going.

I read it to say, in essence, "no B athlete will displace an A athlete, regardless of OT order of finish."

**tafnut** · 10-27-2007, 02:06 PM

I see the document here:

http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/Olympi ... res_TF.asp

and it does seem a lot simpler than last year. The 'A's go in order of their finish (incl qual rds) at OT. If there's no 'A's, it's just the first B.

I have now edited my first post to delete the 'B's that MUST get an A to qualify.

So it's only in the Hammer and Javelin that we might not get our 3.

HT - 5 'B's
Kruger
Johnson
Mai
Freeman
Nutter

JT - 2 'A's
Greer
Hazle

**twinpeeks** · 10-27-2007, 04:25 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

[quote="tafnut"]Who's already got an A for 2008? And if none do, who has a B?

Derek Miles has cleared 5.75 this year. He's healthy and should figure in the mix. I wish him well

05.05.2007 Modesto Relays Invitational 5.50
06.06.2007 Jonesboro USA Pole Vault ind. 1 5.65
22.06.2007 Indianapolis US Ch. USA 5.60
02.08.2007 Jonesboro USA F Pole Vault 2 5.60
18.08.2007 Chula Vista OTC Jumps and Throws Meet 5.70
21.08.2007 Chula Vista OTC Jumps Meet USA 5.75

PV A
5.95/19-6.25 Brad Walker
5.86/19-2.75 Tim Mack
Jeff Hartwig
5.80/19-0.25 Tommy Skipper
Jacob Pauli
5.73/18-9.5 Russ Buller
5.71/18-8.75 Jon Takahashi

**tafnut** · 10-27-2007, 04:37 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

Originally posted by twinpeeks

Derek Miles has cleared 5.75 this year.

As of 10/1/07 the best USATF has on him is

5.69/18-8 1 Derek Miles Nike 9/1 Denver

so I guess he needs to inform them.

**KLocke** · 10-27-2007, 04:44 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

If he jumped at 5.69, I'd smack him!. If he jumped at 5.79, I'd smack him twice

Toby also cleared 5.70 in one of the OTC meets

Originally posted by tafnut

Originally posted by twinpeeks

Derek Miles has cleared 5.75 this year.

As of 10/1/07 the best USATF has on him is

5.69/18-8 1 Derek Miles Nike 9/1 Denver

so I guess he needs to inform them.

**tafnut** · 10-27-2007, 04:52 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

Originally posted by KLocke

If he jumped at 5.69, I'd smack him!. If he jumped at 5.79, I'd smack him twice

One can jump at whatever the official says it is, but if it's measured at a cm less afterwards, you're screwed. 5.69 and 5.79 are nice Imperial marks, 18'8, and 19'0, but of course he'd know that meters count and feet dount.

**KLocke** · 10-27-2007, 04:58 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

I took a peek at his website (derekmiles.com) and he thinks it was 5.70. Apparently, the conditions were rainy and dark. Sounds like a Halloween vault session

Originally posted by tafnut

Originally posted by KLocke

If he jumped at 5.69, I'd smack him!. If he jumped at 5.79, I'd smack him twice

One can jump at whatever the official says it is, but if it's measured at a cm less afterwards, you're screwed. 5.69 and 5.79 are nice Imperial marks, 18'8, and 19'0, but of course he'd know that meters count and feet dount.

gh · 10-27-2007, 06:57 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

Originally posted by tafnut

Originally posted by KLocke

If he jumped at 5.69, I'd smack him!. If he jumped at 5.79, I'd smack him twice

One can jump at whatever the official says it is, but if it's measured at a cm less afterwards, you're screwed....

There's no such thing as an afterwards-measure; that disappeared from the rulebooks years (decades?) ago.

**tafnut** · 10-27-2007, 07:08 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

Originally posted by gh

There's no such thing as an afterwards-measure; that disappeared from the rulebooks years (decades?) ago.

I know HS doesn't have it, but I coulda sworn I've seen them do it in 'open' meets.

**Master Po** · 10-27-2007, 07:44 PM

I think this is the list of men's marathoners w the OG "A" standard. As I understand it, the "A" mark needs to have been earned after Sept 1, 2006. I checked these marathon entrants, and I think I have this right -- based on when they earned their OT qualifying time:

These earned their OT qualifier before September 1, 2006, which means that at this point they do not have the A:
Khannouchi 2:07:04 April 2006
Keflezighi 2:09:56 April 2006
Culpepper 2:11:02 April 2006
Jurcevich 2:14:28 February 2006

These earned their OT qualifier after September 1, 2006 -- either the time listed in the USATF list [or, in brackets, another sub-2:15 that was run after 9/1/2006]:
Hall
Abdirahman
Sell
Gilmore [2:13:13]
Hussain [2:13:52]
Ritzenhein
Sawe
Verran [2:14:23]
Shay

Given this field, I would be very surprised if this turns out to be a problem, as I would expect the top 3 (or more) to come in under 2:15, even though it is not a fast course.

As for the USA women, I think this is right -- many of these not on the OT marathon entry list as yet -- times listed are those within OG qualifying window:

A standard = 2:37:00
2:27:54 Deena Kastor Nov 2006
2:31:48 Elva Dryer Oct 2006
2:32:17 Marla Runyan Oct 2006
2:32:36 Katie McGregor Nov 2006
2:33:18 Colleen deReuck Oct 2006
2:33:50 Mary Akor Oct 2006
2:34:14 Samia Akbar Nov 2006
2:35:26 Zoila Gomez Oct 2006
2:35:37 Jen Rhines Nov 2006
2:35:51 Michelle Lilienthal Oct 2006
2:36:15 Turena Lane Oct 2006
2:36:15 Kate O'Neill Oct 2007

**tandfman** · 10-27-2007, 08:41 PM

Re: 2008 USA Oly Team Selections

Originally posted by gh

There's no such thing as an afterwards-measure; that disappeared from the rulebooks years (decades?) ago.

IIRC, it was about 20 years ago when they changed the rule.

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