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  • Originally posted by Jon
    Like I keep telling Cooky Monzta, head-to-head records are fine for annual rankings, but not when we're talking all-time rankings, because it's a criterion that cannot be applied across the board.

    For example, Bekele has beaten Gebreselassie on every occasion they have raced each other. Does that make Bekele the greatest distance runner of all-time? Bekele might be the fastest, but he has a long way to go to match Geb's achievements
    head-to-heads are quite permissible, providing as you pointed out with the 'thopy example, both are at their peak

    defar & diby will fight it out for goat at 5k ( ok it's young event & wang didn't have it on her schedule in '93, so no opportunity to destroy wr )

    head-to-head record at career end is going to be vital to rank one above the other

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    • Originally posted by bad hammy
      A friend of mine pointed out the following:

      Benoit as GOAT = Bannister as GOAT. It does not compute . . .
      Bannister is indeed The GOAT in certain ways. Just not in the context of THIS discussion. Similarly, I regard JB as 'a' GOAT, just not THE GSF.

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      • Originally posted by bad hammy
        A friend of mine pointed out the following:

        Benoit as GOAT = Bannister as GOAT. It does not compute . . .
        I don't understand? What was the context? Talking of sentimental favourites? Certainly the Brits can't get enough of Bannister.

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        • Is Sir Edmund the Mountain Climbing GOAT? I would doubt it, but that doesn't prevent him from being The Icon. Same for Sir Roger. He is The Icon. Not the same as GOAT, but in some ways, even more significant.

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          • Originally posted by tafnut
            Originally posted by Jon
            it would probably be best to resume this conversation after Beijing next year, when - hopefully - there will be an undisputed GOAT
            CN or PR would have to win very convincingly for that to happen.

            here's we we stand right now, sub 2:22:

            2:15:25 Paula Radcliffe 1 London 2003
            2:17:18 Paula Radcliffe 1 Chicago 2002
            2:17:42 Paula Radcliffe 1 London 2005
            2:18:47 Catherine Ndereba 1 Chicago 2001
            2:18:56 Paula Radcliffe 1 London 2002
            2:19:26 Catherine Ndereba 2 Chicago 2002
            2:19:55 Catherine Ndereba 2 London 2003
            2:20:57 Paula Radcliffe 1 Helsinki 2005
            2:21:12 Catherine Ndereba 2 Boston 2002
            2:21:33 Catherine Ndereba 1 Chicago 2000

            note that Paula's 5 come well before CN's and that 3 of CN's are losses.
            Do you have a complete list of head-to-head performances between Radcliffe and Ndereba, and their times (including DNFs and races where others won, like Noguchi in Athens)? If I'm not mistaken, Ndereba ran 2:19:26 to Radcliffe's 2:15:25 in London.

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            • Originally posted by tafnut
              Is Sir Edmund the Mountain Climbing GOAT? I would doubt it, but that doesn't prevent him from being The Icon. Same for Sir Roger. He is The Icon. Not the same as GOAT, but in some ways, even more significant.
              The point being that Benoit is more iconic that GOATish . . .

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              • Originally posted by bad hammy
                Originally posted by tafnut
                Is Sir Edmund the Mountain Climbing GOAT? I would doubt it, but that doesn't prevent him from being The Icon. Same for Sir Roger. He is The Icon. Not the same as GOAT, but in some ways, even more significant.
                The point being that Benoit is more iconic that GOATish . . .
                This seems to make sense. Wins first womans Olympic marathon, wins at home, against the odds (i can imagine NBC (or whom ever had the TV rights, played up the knee) in front of a recreational marathon mad country. Iconic for sure, but GOAT? Certainly in the mix but i have a few above her. Sorry 26mi235 and cooky monzta.

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                • Originally posted by Daisy
                  Originally posted by bad hammy
                  Originally posted by tafnut
                  Is Sir Edmund the Mountain Climbing GOAT? I would doubt it, but that doesn't prevent him from being The Icon. Same for Sir Roger. He is The Icon. Not the same as GOAT, but in some ways, even more significant.
                  The point being that Benoit is more iconic that GOATish . . .
                  This seems to make sense. Wins first womans Olympic marathon, wins at home, against the odds (i can imagine NBC (or whom ever had the TV rights, played up the knee) in front of a recreational marathon mad country. Iconic for sure, but GOAT? Certainly in the mix but i have a few above her. Sorry 26mi235 and cooky monzta.
                  I think that Joannie ranks right up there but I do not really think that she is the GOAT. I just think that her record was being under-ranked. I still think that when you all the candidates from Era I all hitting their stride at about the same time (earlier for GW, later for RM) that looking at the rankings among them is valid, although needs to be taken in context (earlier years were to early for RM and, to an extent, JB). Later, RM had a great record, but it was against a field where the early greats had semi-retired and the later greats had not yet ascended. I also think it was interesting to see the numerous ways that people compared these stellar athletes.

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                  • Originally posted by 26mi235
                    I also think it was interesting to see the numerous ways that people compared these stellar athletes.
                    Certainly one of the more interesting and educational threads in a while.

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                    • Originally posted by Daisy
                      Originally posted by 26mi235
                      I also think it was interesting to see the numerous ways that people compared these stellar athletes.
                      Certainly one of the more interesting and educational threads in a while.
                      I compare them based on their religion and their take on the Iraqi war . . .

                      :lol: :twisted: :lol:

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                      • Originally posted by Daisy
                        Originally posted by bad hammy
                        The point being that Benoit is more iconic that GOATish . . .
                        This seems to make sense. Wins first womans Olympic marathon, wins at home, against the odds (i can imagine NBC (or whom ever had the TV rights, played up the knee) in front of a recreational marathon mad country. Iconic for sure
                        Bingo.

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                        • Originally posted by tafnut
                          Originally posted by bad hammy
                          A friend of mine pointed out the following:

                          Benoit as GOAT = Bannister as GOAT. It does not compute . . .
                          Bannister is indeed The GOAT in certain ways. Just not in the context of THIS discussion. Similarly, I regard JB as 'a' GOAT, just not THE GSF.
                          And, following that logic, she is not the GOAT/GSF in the context of this discussion.

                          Iconic, sure. Inspirational, sure. But GOAT (in the context of this discussion)? No, sorry.

                          Comment


                          • Re: is Paula the GOAT

                            Benoit the GOAT? No. That belongs to Grete. Greatest American? Yes.

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