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  • Distance experts

    3x800 with approx 5 minutes rest for a woman. The times were 2:33/2:34/2:35. Is this good? And what would you expect this lady to run in an open 800 come the spring

  • #2
    400 speed?
    mile time
    training how long and doing what?

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    • #3
      no mile time.
      53 second 400

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      • #4
        Re: Distance experts

        Originally posted by Smoke
        3x800 with approx 5 minutes rest for a woman. The times were 2:33/2:34/2:35. Is this good? And what would you expect this lady to run in an open 800 come the spring
        Probably 2:15

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        • #5
          Re: Distance experts

          Originally posted by PZhelev
          Originally posted by Smoke
          3x800 with approx 5 minutes rest for a woman. The times were 2:33/2:34/2:35. Is this good? And what would you expect this lady to run in an open 800 come the spring
          Probably 2:15
          This would seem to be the lower limit without an overall improvement in level. I used to do 8 x 2:24 with not as much rest and I was good for a 2:06 or so, although I was not racing anything close to that short so it is not quite the same (e.g., 2:06 was in a workout with 2 x 880 with training shoes, not spikes).

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          • #6
            I guess I'd ask a few (a lot) more questions -

            what kind of competitive history does she have .... how old? (might not be a factor)
            I would think she could/should get those 800 repeats down quite a bit

            But without much more info - with a 53 400 - she very well could go under 2:10 - or ??? lots of variables tho - training should evolve - very very hard to say off of one workout

            the 53 is very impressive and maybe more telling - and the 3x800 seems a bit slow - like i said - training could/should take care of that. This would be a fun athlete/situation to coach.

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            • #7
              oh - another question - has she run a competitive 800 before - if so what result.

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              • #8
                No competitive 800s.

                Appreciate the feedback, believe it or not even with the limited info you guys have helped me get a grip on what I am looking at. I at least know where this can go and where we are headed.
                Thank you

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                • #9
                  Smoke:

                  You might also try asking this question on LetsRun; they have a younger audience and more are in the competitive/distance side of things. However, you will have to filter out more junk at times.

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                  • #10
                    Just something to consider.
                    Traditional endurance workouts may not be applicable to a 53 second 400 m. runner, with no Mile time.... i.e., a sprinter moving up in distance.
                    It seems that you need to keep in mind the strengths, and gradually move that distance up to 800 m., as compared to a distance runner moving down to 800 m. Reps. between 300 and 600 m., with easy distance running for recovery, should be valuable as you move towards racing season.

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                    • #11
                      I agree.

                      To predict 800 for a 400/800 runner multiply relay split x 2.33.
                      If they can't manage that ratio, more miles isn't the answer anyway.

                      Your runner should shoot for ~ 2:04 as a seasonal goal. If that's seems
                      insurmountable, tell her the real goal is < 1:29 600m. That will buy you some to
                      time to work on the confidence side for the 800m.

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                      • #12
                        How is someone who is running 2:33/2:34/2:35 suddenly going to knock off 30 seconds just by doing one of them? It seems that you are missing a digit in the tens place.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 26mi235
                          How is someone who is running 2:33/2:34/2:35 suddenly going to knock off 30 seconds just by doing one of them? It seems that you are missing a digit in the tens place.
                          But the 53s is the key here. That's good leg speed. With more endurance 2.04 or thereabouts is not out of the question. There are no shortage of 2.04 800m types who lack 53s speed...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AS
                            Originally posted by 26mi235
                            How is someone who is running 2:33/2:34/2:35 suddenly going to knock off 30 seconds just by doing one of them? It seems that you are missing a digit in the tens place.
                            But the 53s is the key here. That's good leg speed. With more endurance 2.04 or thereabouts is not out of the question. There are no shortage of 2.04 800m types who lack 53s speed...
                            The 400 time matters for the 800 if there is good endurance that carries over to the next metabolic phase. Reference the rather long discussion about Warnier and even the 600 race of stars. What we have so far is an indication that there is currently very little carry over. With good carryover, the incremental lap is around 60 seconds for men and 65 for women. Here there is the implication that the incremental lap is better than for WR types. Yet we see that the 400 is much more likely a better event. I am sorry, but 3 x 2:34 with 5 minutes rest is not an indication of someone able to run 2:0x much less 2:04. 2:04 is equivalent to top 3 HS All-American, and I will bet every one of those All-Americans could run 5 x 2:24 with half as much rest (i.e., 5 x 2:24 with 400 jog).

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                            • #15
                              If a runner manages 5x 800m in 2:10, but cant run faster than 65 for a single all out lap, the 800m best is going nowhere, despite the unworldly stamina. Stamina only gets you so far.

                              If this 53 runner has thighs as wide as lane three that's one thing. But, if she has a leaner 800 type build, and is motivated to try a new event, she can train very moderately to reach 1:30 600m. It's difficult to reach that 600m capability without also hitting 2:10 in the 800m. She also has much more of an upside in the 800m than a runner who can run just 57. < 2:05 is reasonable. < 2 if the build, workouts, and opportunities are there,

                              Yes some runners can manage 2:04 without 53 speed, and some runners will manage 53 and die horrible deaths in the 800m. When push comes to shove though, you want to go with the 53 runner ( the fastest runner who can't succeed in the 400m) and put 800m goals out there that will motivate the athlete. That means NCAA qualifier if a collegiate, and a peek at the US, Euro, or world lists if she's a post collegiate.

                              The workout given is not spectacular, but it also suggests some endurance potential. Besides, that's about as slow ( and as long) as she ever needs to run.

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