A summer (well your winter) relay project

[olorin]

Since it is the holidays period and even us the ones that work in modern slavery get some time off, I thought about a relay project.
This project is meant to answer few questions that no one cares about except 4-5 people in the world. Luckily there is a chance that the other ones are posting in this board.
The project meant to answer questions like:
• What is the advantage from good exchanges from men and women?
• What is the best passing team ever?
• Is there predictability (consistency) among different teams in their passing?
• What is potentially the WR if we combine the most talented team with the most efficient passing team?
• And many others questions that the data will allow to explore

The problem – I only have Pele's lists. While these lists are wonderful they are not deep enough to give sufficient data on many of the relay teams (e.g. it does not include all team members of the WR setting team of GDR in 1985).
Since some of you seem to have more in depth lists, I wonder if that person is willing to corporate with me on this project either by emailing me the list or adding the missing data.

[Bruce Kritzler]

Guess we are talking strictly about the 4x100.
Think France maximized their talent and passing abilities to set World Record in early (?) 90's. Think it is strictly a matter of practice, repetition that brings consistency and results.
Definitely lacking in the US. But, in general, US colleges use the same system (1 &3 run inside of lane, baton in right hand, 2 &4 run outside of lane, baton in left hand, etc.) so it's just a matter of getting the acceleration marks down.

[Athleticsimaging]

Re: A summer (well your winter) relay project

The problem – I only have Pele's lists. While these lists are wonderful they are not deep enough....

I wouldn't expect a footballer to keep deep relay lists - best to try somebody more involved in athletics :wink:

[Andrea_T]

Re: A summer (well your winter) relay project

The problem – I only have Pele's lists. While these lists are wonderful they are not deep enough to give sufficient data on many of the relay teams (e.g. it does not include all team members of the WR setting team of GDR in 1985).

Then you need to check out Peter Larsson's site instead:

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/w4x100ok.htm

The key to big relay runs is practice practice practice. If you can have the same runners on the team year in year out, as the GDR tended to have, then that's half the battle won. If you watch their exchanges they also tended to take more steps before they exchanged compared to other teams.

[tandfman]

Re: A summer (well your winter) relay project

The problem – I only have Pele's lists. While these lists are wonderful they are not deep enough to give sufficient data on many of the relay teams (e.g. it does not include all team members of the WR setting team of GDR in 1985).

Then you need to check out Peter Larsson's site instead:

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/w4x100ok.htm

I think what olorin meant was that Larsson's 100m list doesn't go deep enough to pick up the 100m PR of all of the WR team.

[olorin]

Re: A summer (well your winter) relay project

The problem – I only have Pele's lists. While these lists are wonderful they are not deep enough to give sufficient data on many of the relay teams (e.g. it does not include all team members of the WR setting team of GDR in 1985).

Then you need to check out Peter Larsson's site instead:

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/w4x100ok.htm

I think what olorin meant was that Larsson's 100m list doesn't go deep enough to pick up the 100m PR of all of the WR team.

While Peter Larsson's site is wonderful, the lists in the 100 & 200 are not deep enough to include many of the athletes that ran in the relays.
For example – let’s say we start with women - the WR is
41.37 German Democratic Republic 1 Canberra 06.10.1985

Silke Möller 20.06.64 GER
Sabine Günther 06.11.63 GER
Ingrid Auerswald 02.09.57 GDR
Marlies Göhr 21.03.58 GDR
The problem is that Sabine Günther time in the 100 is not good enough to be in Larsonn's (only the 200).
As we move to weaker team the problem deepen. In the men side let’s assume that we want to study the wonderful Brazilian team in Sydney.
29 37.90 Brazil 2 Sydney 30.09.2000

Vicente Lenilson de Lima 04.06.77 BRA
Edson Luciano Ribeiro 08.12.72 BRA
André Domingos da Silva 26.11.72 BRA
Claudinei Quirino da Silva 19.11.70 BRA
None of the athletes have time in the 100 and the first 2 are not included in the 200 list.
These are only two examples of a problem that will limit this “study” only to the top teams (USA and company). While in many cases it is the teams like the Brazilian that are of interest as they do bother with practicing the exchanges.
Thus if this "study" is to have any meaning then I need very deep lists for the 100&200 for both men and women

[Andrea_T]

Re: A summer (well your winter) relay project

Try this http://hem.bredband.net/athletics/atb-d01.htm

[tracknut]

I made a presentation on this same subject for a masters thesis. I will look my old computer for the statistics of the aforementioned relays. I came up a with a "relay efficiency" conversion. This was based on the composite times for that years. (PB are not used unless it was that year). the range was anywhere from 2.5 (composite time less relay time) for "good" to excellent 3.0 differential. The amazing thing about the GDR womens teams is they did not have Marita Koch on that team who earlier ran 21.7 versus Auerswald 11.10 (as I recall). The french of 1990 and 1991 reached a high of 2.7 versus the 1991 mens of 2.3. let me know if this helps.

[olorin]

I made a presentation on this same subject for a masters thesis. I will look my old computer for the statistics of the aforementioned relays. I came up a with a "relay efficiency" conversion. This was based on the composite times for that years. (PB are not used unless it was that year). the range was anywhere from 2.5 (composite time less relay time) for "good" to excellent 3.0 differential. The amazing thing about the GDR womens teams is they did not have Marita Koch on that team who earlier ran 21.7 versus Auerswald 11.10 (as I recall). The french of 1990 and 1991 reached a high of 2.7 versus the 1991 mens of 2.3. let me know if this helps.

Tracknut - I do not have your email. mine is [email protected]

[26mi235]

The high differentials that are reached with second-level runners (.e.g, 10.20 on the world stage) may over sate what can be accomplished by top teams. Top runners work very hard on their starts and reaction times because for them 0.02 matters a lot. At 10.20 PR the difference to 10.19 is not so big. Thus, the 10.20 guys might be 10.18 or even 10.15 or better if they raced a lot and worked as hard as the Gay/AP/Lewis types.