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  • bf
    replied
    How about multiplying them? I keep Throwing pentathlon records, and include "Product" Scoring in addition to the IAAF/WMA scores. In fact, I even do 1-on-1 percentage comparison scoring, just to make sure all 'deserving' pentathlons are listed. In 'product' scoring, you multiply the five metric marks (H x S x D x J x Wt), using decimal places that allow space on calculator display; then the final figure is the first 4 digits - i.e., men's age-44 record (16#,16#,2k,800g,35#) would be 52.24 x 16.15 x 46.78 x 52.16 x 17.82 = 3668 points. This works theoretically, but probably isn't a fair scoring method, as it seems to favor certain events.

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  • gh
    replied
    Originally posted by cacique
    hey, many thanks for the info. i was somewhat curious about why these tables are calculated via fraction of the world record, as opposed to a pure total combined distance in meters. ....
    In any combo thing, doing by total of the distance (or time, as the case may be) flaws the compilation from the get-go because it favors those in the longer events. A 1-meter improvement in the shot is earth-shattering, but means nothing in the discus.

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  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by cacique
    also where are the women's tables?
    Same place the men's are. See the link posted by Andy Bloom.

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  • cacique
    replied
    hey, many thanks for the info. i was somewhat curious about why these tables are calculated via fraction of the world record, as opposed to a pure total combined distance in meters. one of the reasons i asked was because i was intrigued by rutger smith, whom i knew to be a good shot/discus guy. i must confess from the lists that there are quite a few names i never heard of (i guess these lists are heavily US-based).

    also where are the women's tables? i'd think women throwers are more versatile than men.

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  • Bruce Kritzler
    replied
    Note that Mac Wilkins is #4 on the combined shot, discus, hammer, javelin list.

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  • tandfman
    replied
    Stevens's PR mark in the HT came in May, so it should have been on the site's list.

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  • kreynolds
    replied
    On the women's side, ASU's Sarah Stevens had quite a year in 2007. She's listed as =2 on the shot/disc/ham list (behind Seilala Sua and tied with Carol Cady). But her hammer mark is listed as 65.43m, while the latest T&FN has her at 66.34m on the yearly lists. Looks like she'd close the gap on Sua, but wouldn't quite pass her for the all-time lead.

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  • Chrome Dome
    replied
    Fascinating site!

    Cory Martin seems poised to move up big time in the combos of the shot, hammer & discus.

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  • tafnut
    replied
    Originally posted by tandfman
    That's one of the weirdest glitches I've ever seen on these Boards. A double post nearly an hour apart!
    No, no, no. That's just last night's tequila double-talking. :wink:

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  • tandfman
    replied
    That's one of the weirdest glitches I've ever seen on these Boards. A double post nearly an hour apart!

    Leave a comment:


  • ShaunP
    replied
    It is a useful list, but I think that it is a little out of date in parts. They do not have Rutger Smith's current data in Shot/Disc, as he improved his discus mark to 67.63m so has probably surpassed his contryman Erik de Bruin, and I think that he will be challenging Andy and the others above him this year.

    The big milestone that they are looking for is the 70/70 double, or 70 feet in the Shot and 70m in the disc. Godina is 9cm short in the disc, and I think that part of the reason to have shoulder surgery last year was to be able to throw the disc again. The race is on with Rutger, so John must be working hard.

    While Shot/Disc combi is quite commonplace, Hammer in combination with the others is quite unusual. There are a few very good Shot/Disc doublers, such as Robert Weir, Kibwe Johnson and even Robert Fazekas being very good at both, but not great Shot Putters (Weir 13.5metres!!!!). Hammer and and Shot is more unusual, with I think Dylan Armstrong and Dan Taylor being two of the best. My own shot PR of 20.45m would move me up a few places above the 17.87m that they have me listed as, as would my 21.68m Weight Throw, but my 55m discus lets me down!

    Of course Lance Deal is way out in front with the combo of all three. I think that Koji Murofushi would be quite good as a multiple thrower, as he started out as a 78m Javelin Thrower, and threw the Discus for Asia in the IAAF World Cup a few years ago. I was lucky enough (or unlucky...) to be competing against John Brenner and Dean Crouser in the Weight Pentathlon in the early 80's which was very impressive results in one day, and they would have pushed Mac Wilkins close in a Multiple Throws competition. I think that Rutger Smith would also be very close, as I have seen him throw 60m in the hammer of one turn about 5 yrs ago, so would be much better now, and I think that Dan Taylor and Kibwe Johnson and perhaps Scott Russell would also be close. I have to say that the modern small diameter 35lb weight give a huge advantage over the cast Iron "Big Ball and Triangle" that I saw Robert Weir throw 24m+ back in the 80's. I would like to see what Robert, with his long Arms, would have made of the tungsten weight!

    ShaunP

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  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by ShaunP
    It is a useful list, but I think that it is a little out of date in parts. They do not have Rutger Smith's current data in Shot/Disc, as he improved his discus mark to 67.63m
    At the end of the list, it says that the info was last updated 27 Aug 07. Smith threw 67.63 in September.

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  • ShaunP
    replied
    It is a useful list, but I think that it is a little out of date in parts. They do not have Rutger Smith's current data in Shot/Disc, as he improved his discus mark to 67.63m so has probably surpassed his contryman Erik de Bruin, and I think that he will be challenging Andy and the others above him this year.

    The big milestone that they are looking for is the 70/70 double, or 70 feet in the Shot and 70m in the disc. Godina is 9cm short in the disc, and I think that part of the reason to have shoulder surgery last year was to be able to throw the disc again. The race is on with Rutger, so John must be working hard.

    While Shot/Disc combi is quite commonplace, Hammer in combination with the others is quite unusual. There are a few very good Shot/Disc doublers, such as Robert Weir, Kibwe Johnson and even Robert Fazekas being very good at both, but not great Shot Putters (Weir 13.5metres!!!!). Hammer and and Shot is more unusual, with I think Dylan Armstrong and Dan Taylor being two of the best. My own shot PR of 20.45m would move me up a few places above the 17.87m that they have me listed as, as would my 21.68m Weight Throw, but my 55m discus lets me down!

    Of course Lance Deal is way out in front with the combo of all three. I think that Koji Murofushi would be quite good as a multiple thrower, as he started out as a 78m Javelin Thrower, and threw the Discus for Asia in the IAAF World Cup a few years ago. I was lucky enough (or unlucky...) to be competing against John Brenner and Dean Crouser in the Weight Pentathlon in the early 80's which was very impressive results in one day, and they would have pushed Mac Wilkins close in a Multiple Throws competition. I think that Rutger Smith would also be very close, as I have seen him throw 60m in the hammer of one turn about 5 yrs ago, so would be much better now, and I think that Dan Taylor and Kibwe Johnson and perhaps Scott Russell would also be close. I have to say that the modern small diameter 35lb weight give a huge advantage over the cast Iron "Big Ball and Triangle" that I saw Robert Weir throw 24m+ back in the 80's. I would like to see what Robert, with his long Arms, would have made of the tungsten weight!

    ShaunP

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Wonderful site, Andy. Thank you.

    (And let me note for those not going to that site that Andy is 3rd behind Godina and Wilkins on the all-time shot-discus combo list.)

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  • Andy Bloom
    replied
    Tony Dziepak has a thrower's stats page where he looks at every possible combo. His rankings take your PR as a percentage of the current world record. I think he also allows you to see the rankings based on the world record at that time.

    The page of combo rankings is http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/8682/combo.htm

    Based on his scoring method, Lance Deal (18.35, 61.62, 82.52) is the best triple. Mac's hammer PR, according to the site is 63.66 and so he doesn't even make the hammer, shot, disc list.

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