Do many states have time-based qualifying for HS state meet?

[DrJay]

I was perusing the Colorado HSAA T&F coaches bulletin online and saw a couple of interesting things. One, the T&F committee discussed making 1500/3000 the standard distances instead of 1600/3200 but decided against it. Two, I didn't realize athletes could qualify for state based on time/distance, not just by finishing in the top few at regionals. The marks standards, however, are tough, based on a three year average of 5th place state meet finishers' marks. Athletes who qualify based on time/distance have to be entered in that event at regional in order to compete at state but don't have to compete in that event at regional. Do other states have time/distance qualifying?

From the CHSAA bulletin:

qualifying marks:

CLASS 5A
GIRLS BOYS

100 Meter 12.33 10.97
200 Meter 25.37 22.09
400 Meter 58.25 49.51
800 Meter 2:16.15 1:56.05
1600 Meter 5:12.08 4:24.32
3200 Meter 11:30.69 9:44.80
110 HH ------ 14.88
100 HH 15.0 ------
300 IH 45.27 39.53
400 Relay 49.52 42.69
800 Relay 1:43.55 1:28.78
800 Medley 1:50.07 ------
1600 Relay 4:00.87 3:20.23
3200 Relay 9:44.47 8:04.50
Pole Vault 10’4” 13’6”
High Jump 5’3” 6’4”
Long Jump 17’4” 22’2”
Triple Jump 36’9” 44’2"
Shot Put 36’3" 51’4”
Discus 115’0" 154’7”

MEET REGULATIONS
• The meets must be approved in writing and sanctioned by the due date on the
application.
• Meets must involve five or more schools
• The meet must be officiated by a minimum of three certified officials. (1-Referee, 1-
Starter, 1-Head Field Judge)
• Fully automatic timing must be used to register qualifying times
• Wind gauge (minimum – 3 – long jump, triple jump, sprint) – Wind gauge forms
• Meet must be limited to bona fide high school athletes that meet all CHSAA general
eligibility standards
• Running events must be in meters on a regulation outdoor track
• Shot put and discus are weighed on certified scales (e.g. wrestling) according to
National Federation Rules

[Mighty Favog]

The only states on which I can comment are Ohio and Michigan. Neither have any kind of marks-based qualifying.

[Marlow]

Here in Florida, many coaches are sick of our 4-qualify system. There are 16 districts and each district qualifies 4 to region and 4 qualify from region to state. So we end up with fields that typically reflect the 1-2-3-4-8-12-16-etc. best athletes in each event. My district is ridiculously stronger than any other district (and at least one region), so I have athletes that could have scored at the State Meet (8 places), that do not even advance to Region.

We have been proposing that the advancement protocol should AT LEAST be top 3, plus 4 best performances, but the weak districts always block our initiatives. The truly odd thing is that is how Swimming advances to the State Meet here. Grrrr

[26mi235]

...The truly odd thing is that is how Swimming advances to the State Meet here. Grrrr

Swimming has much more standard conditions (and might have a much larger influence from the club side).

[26mi235]

" • Fully automatic timing must be used to register qualifying times"

Why do the 1600/3200 need FAT?

Also note the influence of altitude with fast sprints and slower distances, although those distance marks are not particularly soft (Colorado is pretty good in the distances, of course). Another issue with using an average of the 5th places is that the distance races can be tactical affairs (Big Ten or NCAA Indoor mile anyone?), especially if top runners are doubling and want to save themselves. I wonder if the median mark from each State Meet Fional/top 8 and the median mark across years would be a better metric.

[Riff80]

The only states on which I can comment are Ohio and Michigan. Neither have any kind of marks-based qualifying.

Michigan actually does have an additional qualifier rule, but it must be achieved at the regional meets.

From the Michigan High School Athletic Association website

QUALIFICATION FROM LOWER PENINSULA REGIONAL MEETS
TO LOWER PENINSULA FINAL MEET
The first two places in each event at each Regional Meet qualify to enter the Lower Peninsula Final Meet in that event. In addition, during the finals of a Regional running event, any contestant who equals or betters the published additional qualifier standard shall qualify to the Lower Peninsula Final Meet in that event in that division. Efforts in the preliminary trials of the long jump, shot put, pole vault and discus may qualify a contestant to the appropriate Final Meet.

[Riff80]

Georgia has it really bad.
Only the top 2 in each event at regionals qualify for the state meet.

[mcgato]

Back in my day, Minnesota had a deal where extra people could qualify for the state meet based on their regional time. I think it is still the same, though I may be wrong.

The set up was:
Sub-Region: top 4 to region
Region: top 2 to state, and if anyone has a time that would be among the eight fastest times across all the eight regions, they get to go to the state meet too. To clarify, if 3rd and 4th place in region 1 had the 5th and 7th fastest times of all of the regional meets, they go on to state too.

[trackhead]

CA

In California, there is an at large standard, but it must be achieved at the section final (the regional championship that decides the state championship entrants). For example, in my old section back in 2004, the CCS sent five entrants int he 3200m instead of the usual three because they had all run under the standard at the CCS Final.

And for 2008, they are:
100m 10.70 11.99
200m 21.59 24.35
400m 48.55 56.04
800m 1:54.76 2:12.19
1600m 4:14.96 4:57.47
3200m 9:14.22 10:43.80
110m HH 14.37
100m HH 14.45
300m IH 38.53 44.32
4x100mR 42.27 47.57
4x400mR 3:20.60 3:52.88
High Jump 6'6.0" 5'5.0"
Pole Vault 14'10.00" 11'09.00"
Long Jump 22'8.00" 18'3.75"
Triple Jump 46'03.00" 39'0.0"
Shot Put 56'4.75" 40'11.25"
Discus Throw 172'5.00" 136'1.0"

And one other note, I believe that all the sections (except the Oakland and San Francisco sections) are allowed three entrants per event (and get extras if the above standards are met at the section championships). The San Francisco and Oakland Sections, because of their relative size, get just one entrant per event.

And there are no divisions in track at the state level (the Southern Section, with over 550 schools, uses divisions in their earlier rounds to divide up the mess).

[DrJay]

Some KY state records (my home state) are barely better than those CA qualifyng times.

[LongTimeSubscriber]

Those marks to qualify at large for the California state meet would probably best many other state champions. In fairness, it should be noted that there is only one division in California (and I hope that never changes).

[polevaultpower]

In WA you can qualify on performance if it is achieved at your state qualifying meet and you are below the number of qualifiers. The standards are super high, based on the average of the 3rd place finish at State, so it's rare, but a few get to State this way every year, especially in the smaller divisions where the talent might not be balanced.

[skyin' brian]

Illinois is adding a third division next year (for track, football already has eight which is good for safety i guess, and basketball has something like four).

I believe that Illinois still uses the top two from sectionals (track has only sectionals and state, many other sports have regional, sectional, state) plus "extra" qualifiers that meet a certain standard AT the sectional meet.

What I don't like about our system (I'm sure many other states do this as well) is the limit of two entries per event at sectionals. Not fair to schools with depth in events like pole vault!

[ppalmer]

New Mexico use a time-based qualifying system. I think once an athlete has achieved the time/mark required, they can go to state regardless of results at districts, etc.

(I am most familiar with the smaller schools because the results are in the newspaper, and hitting a state qualifying time/distance is a big deal locally.)

Pat Palmer

[nmzoo]

As a clarification, New Mexico actually has a hybrid system. Athletes meeting event standards can compete no matter what. In addition, top 2 individuals and top 3 relay teams at districts also qualify. This means that if an event has a large number of mark qualifiers and these athletes do not compete at district (as happens to some extent), an event may wind up with a large number of entrants compared to and event in which most mark qualifiers actually competed in districts. New Mexico has 5 classes . Some events may have 20-25 qualifiers and others only 9-10.