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  • Shrinking Results in T&FN

    I've been a subsriber to T&FN since 1975 and continue to be a bit concerned about the shrinking results reported in T&FN. The World and US lists used to be 50 deep (a nice round number), but now only 40 (what's the significance of 40?)...the NCAA results used to be 50 deep with other significant athletes reported (for example, listing Henry Rono as fourth from last when he bombed in the snow when the NCAA was held in Wisconsin) but now only 35 deep and no other secondary performances noted. And why was every other finisher printed in bold in the NCAA results for both men and women? That looked odd and a bit distracting.

    Minor nitpicks as T&FN has given me an immense amount of enjoyment over the past 25+ years, but it seems like results are getting skimpier (in deference to the website or Track Newsletter?), but I'd still like to see top 50 lists for the World and US each year for those of us who still to use T&FN as their main reference source.

  • #2
    Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

    I've only been a subscriber since '96, so I didn't realize the lists had shrunk. Perhaps it's simple economics -- T&FN may save a page or two by reducing the lists. I'd love the meet results to be more extensive, as well (e.g., Golden West, Foot Lock t&f nationals)....

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    • #3
      Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

      They told me that they leave the statistics for the Finnish statistician (whatever his name is) and his website "Tilastopaja". Can't quite remember the spelling. But, I agree with you. How hard can it be to produce some deep lists? Atleast top-200 in each event in the world. It would be really great tool for recruiting.

      whatever happened to "THE BIBLE OF SPORT"????????????

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      • #4
        Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

        "whatever happened to "THE BIBLE OF SPORT"?"

        Two words: The internet

        Dyestat.com, Letsrun.com (well, their message board as they just link to news), Trackshark.com, IAAF.org, etc etc etc....

        Most of these lists, results, rankings are available on the internet (which you are using right now!) Of course, if it's on the net, everyone expects everything for free.

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        • #5
          Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

          Matt:They removed a portion of the "Old Testament"

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          • #6
            Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

            Have you signed up for the e-service (they used to call it eTN, now it's eTrack)?

            For the same amount of money you paid for a sub last year you're now getting a quantum amount more stats than the magazine ever dreamed of printing.

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            • #7
              Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

              In addition to what "satisified customer" noted about our new e-service (which all of you who are writing here clearly have easy access to!), let me note that the results material that is being trimmed in the magazine is ancient history in the magazine but available "instantly" on this site or some other.

              And since the number of pages of non-advertising material in the magazine actually ROSE 6% last year, that means you not only got the removed material removed by something more unique, you got even more pages with "unique" stuff we hope you couldn't find anywhere else.

              We don't remotely claim to have the perfect formula in trying to balance magazine content with online content, but we're going out of our way to make them complement each other and increase our subscribers' bang for the buck.

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              • #8
                Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                I know there are links to some track videos online, they have at times appeared on this board. What I wish I could purchase is stuff like the official IAAF videos like the WC '79 (that's cup as in java) which T&FN used to advertise for sale years ago (about 24 to be exact). Is there somewhere one can purchase DVDs of track by Olympics, Worlds, World Cups, and so forth? What about downloadable clips by event? athlete? meet? How many others would gladly shell out a few bucks for these things, or are they that easy to come by for nothing?

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                • #9
                  Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                  eTrack results for NCAA XC = 250 deep! Loved reading about the races in the magazine but much prefer the paper version being focused on stories and not pages and pages of results and lists.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                    I'm totally sympathetic to the dilemma T&FN has dealt with regarding the publication of "complete" results. In the old days, when T&FN was truly the US "journal of record" for the sport, it was natural to print very deep results for all the important events. Those results are now available (more quickly) in the e-edition, which I religiously print out and file next to my stack of T&FNs. The magazine, on the other hand, is quite correctly putting more focus on information that is not available elsewhere. It's a completely appropriate mix that, we all hope, will keep both the e-version and the print version healthy for quite some time.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                      What i miss are the once unique Oly preview. Today's "watered down" preview pales mightly. Then the Games coverage was awesome. Detailed description of each events from the prelim stage brought us virtually on location......oh for the days of yore!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                        >What i miss are the once unique Oly preview. Today's "watered down" preview
                        >w pales mightly. Then the Games coverage was awesome. Detailed description of
                        >each events from the prelim stage brought us virtually on location......oh for
                        >the days of yore!


                        Agreed ... While I understand that deep results are available all over the net now, I think what TFN is missing is that now the magazine is less complete !!! I have my issues back from 1974 … When TFN was truly “The Bible” … What was available then was:

                        • More issues (2/mo) during the peak part of the season
                        • 50 deep lists
                        • Annual Issues detailed not only why the Number 1 was chosen in each event but also why places 2 – 10 were chosen and why they were placed where they were
                        • Lots of relay splits
                        • In Depth Pre Olympic Trials and Games predictions and reviews

                        Up through the 80’s Track and Field News was IT if you wanted information on the sport .. And while, yes there are many more outlets now, I don’t see that as an excuse as to why TFN should still not be the TOP source for information .. I used to go to track meets and pack my Track and Field News knowing that it contained everything I needed to know .. Now I print out information from several web sites and place them in a binder that I take with me .. Used to be when I wanted information on something that happened in the past I simply whipped out an old issue or two of TFN that was published around the time period in question … Now I search web sites and go through binders and folders of previously printed data …

                        Yes, there are more expedient ways to find information today with the advent of the internet … But why does that mean that the Bible of the Sport has to stop being the Bible ?? Not being the Bible gives people LESS reason to obtain a copy, not more … I used to subscribe (1st class) and waited with baited breath so as not to miss anything … Now I simply buy it at the store when I get around to it … Still get em all, but the urgency is no longer there … Read em and pack em (cause I’m not gonna need em any more) … But even with the net, if it had what it used to it would still be the only thing I would need to take to a track meet – aside from a few stop watches !!!

                        One final suggestion .. While the professional world of track and field has myriads of information available, collegiate and high school still has major voids – especially on the list and archival fronts … TFN could STILL be the place to go for information on those aspects of the sport … Its 10 deep all time lists are an insult given that lists are available no where else ….

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                        • #13
                          Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                          The 1974 version of TFN was indeed "more complete"................ if you only liked men's track!

                          Maybe you'd prefer that women once again be ghettoized and tossed from the magazine and all the space given to men only?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                            >The 1974 version of TFN was indeed "more complete"................ if you
                            >only liked men's track!

                            Maybe you'd prefer that women once again be
                            >ghettoized and tossed from the magazine and all the space given to men only?

                            Not at all ... You didn't see me say or intimate that ... What I pointed to was the type of information provided and the frequency with with detailed information during peak times was distributed ... You ignore the fact that I said this continued through the 80's (when women's data was every bit as plentiful as the men's) or the difference in usage of the publication between then and now ...

                            So don't try to classify me as some sort of anti feminist when all I did was compare the past 30 years of the publication...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Shrinking Results in T&FN

                              One place you're dead-wrong is on frequency. TFN indeed had 18 issues in 1974, the year you started, but as a peak at the covers in the Archive section of this site shows, starting in 1975 it was 12, same as now.

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