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Pre PV M [American Record for Walker]

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  • #31
    The main difference I see in the comparison of mens and womens is the length of time. Women's polevault basically didnt exist (no technically correct, but you know what i mean) when Bubka was doing his thing. Its been quite a while, and still no one is really getting all that close to his records, let alone displacing him on the alltime best performances list. Youve got to figure that polevault is a technology intensive event, making future competitors more likely to approach his mark, but he is still head and shoulders (and torso) above the rest of the field. Even if and when his WR falls, its going to take a lot of very consistent high level vaulting to displace him as GOAT in the pole vault. If time ended today, and you asked who was the greatest of all time, what would you say? If someone jumped a 20cm pr and broke his WR using a brand new advanced pole, what would you say?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by BruceFlorman
      ....
      I’m sincerely curious about how people view this whole “GOAT” thing in light of Walker’s clearance yesterday. Brad is now just 11 cm shy of Sergei’s world record, which coincidentally is exactly how far Jenn’s PR stands below Yelena’s. In terms of percentage, Brad is actually closer, since his PR is now 98.2% of the WR, vs. 97.8% for Jenn. So would I be laughed outta the room if I were to suggest that maybe Bubka isn’t quite as GOAT-worthy as he’s been made out to be?

      Personally, I’m not comfortable calling anyone the “Greatest Of All Time”, if only because “All Time” lasts so darn long. I’m fully confident that the only records that will remain unbroken forever are those in events no longer contested. But Bubka’s record has had an aura of unattainablity to it (it seem to me), and yet, from an arithmetic standpoint, is it really more firmly entrenched than Isi’s? Yes, it’s stood for about sixteen years now, but it’s still just eleven centimeters away from an early season PR in an Olympic year. What’re the chances it’s gonna fall?

      Just in case it’s not clear, I’m not trying to bait, belittle or disrespect anyone with this post. It’s been well established that I’m a loyal Isi-fan, but I emphatically deny that this makes me anti-Jenn (or an antigen either). Nor am I anti-Brad, anti-Bubka or anti-26mi235. But I am hoping to spark some commentary about the different ways that the current records and record holders in the men’s and women’s PV are viewed.
      No, Bubka isn't the GOAT; Dutch Warmerdam is. :-)

      But seriously, being the GOAT has little to do with WRs and everything to do w/ what you did in competition against your peers. Bubka's 5 straight WC titles and an Olympic gold kind of speak for themselves in that department. Walker could jump 21ft at this point and still take a decade before he could be mentioned in the same breath as Bubka.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 26mi235
        Originally posted by txhjumper
        6 Tommy Skipper USA 5.45m 17-10.50
        5.45 5.60
        O XXX


        Someone did better in high school.
        Apparently he broke a pole, which can have a disconcerting affect on a vaulter. The event has such a small margin for error at big heights, adding nerves/uncertainty makes it even harder to perform right, especially when you no not absolutely HAVE to focus (like at the Trials).

        Glad to hear he isn't injured. The one time I broke a pole, my hands had a very difficult time gripping the pole for the rest of the day because of the vibrations.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by gh
          Walker could jump 21ft at this point and still take a decade before he could be mentioned in the same breath as Bubka.
          Isn't that one breath?!?! :P :wink:

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          • #35
            Lets see. Walkers been vaulting pro for 4 years now. He has taken six of Bubka's meet records. He is just 26 years old. First year out he won Silver, then indoor Gold, then outdoor Gold, then indoor Silver. Now has the American Record, and had an attempt at the WR. Not his first either. Yeah I would say he can and should be mentioned in the same breath. When do the US vaulters peak, 28 to 31 years????? Let's just keep watching. :roll:

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            • #36
              Originally posted by gh
              No, Bubka isn't the GOAT; Dutch Warmerdam is. :-)
              Agreed.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Jumpman
                When do the US vaulters peak, 28 to 31 years?????
                You can't generalize like that. Lo Jo set his US record at 22 and never improved. Joe Dial had his highest vault at 24. Jacob Davis vaulted 5.90 at 19 and it remained his ultimate PB.
                Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by gh
                  No, Bubka isn't the GOAT; Dutch Warmerdam is. :-)
                  Ya think Al Launder should'a called his book "From Wannabe To Warmerdam" instead? *

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by polevaultpower
                    Originally posted by gh
                    No, Bubka isn't the GOAT; Dutch Warmerdam is. :-)
                    Agreed.
                    Can't be compared, in my opinion, since you are talking about two different events. I would say they are both GOATs in their own events. None else can even be mentioned in the same sentence.

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                    • #40
                      "Youve got to figure that polevault is a technology intensive event, making future competitors more likely to approach his mark, but he is still head and shoulders (and torso) above the rest of the field. "

                      Note that one of the changes (pushed by Bubka?) is with the standards/bar, with the pegs made shorter and the barends made semi-circles (and no Volzing); this makes a given mark harder anytime that the bar has been touched. How many of Bubka's clearances were completely clean? With the revised equipment it is easily possible that any of his non-clean clearances would have been failures instead. I am not sure that he would be able to do anything differently except make attempts at lower heights, so you might cut a couple cms from many clearances, although that would not affect his competitive record. It might alter the all-time rankings a bit though.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 26mi235
                        "Note that one of the changes (pushed by Bubka?) is with the standards/bar, with the pegs made shorter and the barends made semi-circles (and no Volzing); this makes a given mark harder anytime that the bar has been touched. How many of Bubka's clearances were completely clean? With the revised equipment it is easily possible that any of his non-clean clearances would have been failures instead. I am not sure that he would be able to do anything differently except make attempts at lower heights, so you might cut a couple cms from many clearances, although that would not affect his competitive record. It might alter the all-time rankings a bit though.
                        That is certainly true, but on the other hand, his marks do not reflect his true potential, as he focused on improving the WR centimetre by centimetre. Hadn't he done that, the WR could be something absurd now.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by mikli
                          That is certainly true, but on the other hand, his marks do not reflect his true potential, as he focused on improving the WR centimetre by centimetre. Hadn't he done that, the WR could be something absurd now.
                          Since he had so many bites at the apple (got one whenever he won an event, a very common occurrence) and did not get a record on many of them, he might even have a higher record than trying to do 3 or 5 cm increments. My remembrance (not real firm) is that he took a while to reach the WR and then his own capabilities continued to improve but not leaps but steadily. People say the same thing about Isi, but she only made one real leap in the record and has only gotten one more since, at that was at the BIG meet.

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                          • #43
                            Closeup pictures of Brad Walker's AR

                            Click on

                            http://trackandfieldphoto.com/DisplayJp ... RLM&next=1

                            Then keep clicking ON the picture for the next one.

                            Brad is real cutie pie.

                            Miani

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