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The downfall of Western European T&F

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  • #16
    Originally posted by eldrick
    different era with no floods of africans to deal with

    imo, few of those woud have been elite champs if curent calibre of africans were competing back then
    I don't have a huge disagreement with you, but you are changing the topic.
    You can only beat the people in your own era, and there are a lot of World Champions and World Record Holders in that list. C'mon, Eldy admit it

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    • #17
      Doesn't Britain count as western Europe still? You can add our 4 medals to the total as well. Somehow we managed to grab 5th spot on the placings table, but way behind the top 4 nations on points.

      And since when did Russia and the Baltic states count as western Europe?

      We're still fully competitive in the middle distances (or we were up until Beijing). The top guys from Gebrselassie onwards in the long distances are running such unreal times that we're struggling to catch up and I think a lot have lost motivation. European stock athletes are able to live with the East Africans to a certain point. It's been really interesting to watch the adulation Hall, Mottram, and Rothlin get for being able to compete with the East Africans.

      Someone on another message board made a really good point about Bekele and co. They said it was impossible to relate to an athlete who runs the way Bekele does and the times that he does. Bekele is someone from another universe and not "human". I feel the same about Defar and Dibaba. They're all doing things that are (or were) not thought physically possible. And all before they're supposed to hit their peaks at age 25 or over.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by AthleticsInBritain
        Doesn't Britain count as western Europe still? You can add our 4 medals to the total as well.
        Precisely. Some Western European countries did badly, but others did all right. Belgium and Norway had a gold and a silver each, and Portugal also won a gold.

        And if the overall showing was poor, it was partly because the former Soviets did so well. Russia had 18 medals, Belarus had 7 and Ukraine 5.
        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AthleticsInBritain
          And since when did Russia and the Baltic states count as western Europe?
          They don:t. I injected that piece in there, because I didn:t want to start another thread specifically about European athletes.

          Sanna Kallur not falling in her semi-final likely would have won gold had Jones fallen - which is up-for-grabs, as Sanna:s presence would have changed the dynamics and pressing (despite athletes claiming to only run their own races). Silver and/or bronze absolutely.

          Klüft not polluting her chances by changing her run-up and not making the final could have saved the day for our medal chances as well. That:s two medal opportunities there, just not reached. Sverige didn:t fall by the wayside, nor are we washed up as a country.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by EPelle
            Sverige ..., nor are we washed up as a country.
            you're close though

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            • #21
              Originally posted by rasb
              I don't have a huge disagreement with you, but you are changing the topic.
              You can only beat the people in your own era, and there are a lot of World Champions and World Record Holders in that list. C'mon, Eldy admit it
              that's a bit like saying american basketballers/baseballers/footballers prior to '50s before blacks were allowed to play were uncontestable goat material

              how many of them woud have been considered such if their had been no colour bar ?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by AthleticsInBritain
                Doesn't Britain count as western Europe still? You can add our 4 medals to the total as well. Somehow we managed to grab 5th spot on the placings table, but way behind the top 4 nations on points.
                I didn't include GB because they are in a special situation with London 2012 now approaching. Technically they count for Western Europe too.

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                • #23
                  You might just as well include the Aussies and New Zealanders, at least as far as distance running. I'm still not over Mottram failing to make the 5000 final.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by eldrick
                    that's a bit like saying american basketballers/baseballers/footballers prior to '50s before blacks were allowed to play were uncontestable goat material

                    how many of them woud have been considered such if their had been no colour bar ?
                    not all but more than a few.
                    ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bob Duncan
                      You might just as well include the Aussies and New Zealanders, at least as far as distance running. I'm still not over Mottram failing to make the 5000 final.
                      Kim Smith ran pretty well... as did Willis...

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                      • #26
                        There were som failures from Western European countries such as Naide in LJ, Fernandez in 20KmW,, but there were also some good surprises as Ourhuogu in 400m or Hellebaut in HJ. Really I don´t think the performance was worst than expect. The big problem is for example France and Germany are not so strong as some years ago. Spain and Italy have good teams but not clear favorites in any event. GBR was not bad at all altough at medal leval there were better years. I am not considering as western european countries, the nordic countries (Sweden, etc), baltic countries (Latvia, etc), former Yugoslavia countries (Serbia, etc) and which I call central european countries such as Poland, Hungary, etc. Without the ex-soviet countries, european performance was not good at all but the expectations were also lower.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jhc68
                          Is this year the paradigm shift? Just as distance events became the domain of east and north African runners a generation ago, have the Caribbean countries taken over the speed events?
                          Dont think it will be that dominant and I dont see a genuine paradigm shift either...nonetheless a VERY impressive OGs for them and they will be a force for years to come, even thought I dont expect them to ever be quite this dominant again or perhaps every 12-20 years or so!! They have actually regressed in the men's 400 & 400 hurdles, where USA is as dominant as ever...I told everyone i knew there was no way we could sweep the 400 with a weak link like David Neville, but David showed what he is made of & proved me wrong!! One of those rare occasions where I am DELIGHTED to be proven wrong!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Powell
                            Originally posted by AthleticsInBritain
                            Doesn't Britain count as western Europe still? You can add our 4 medals to the total as well.
                            Precisely. Some Western European countries did badly, but others did all right. Belgium and Norway had a gold and a silver each, and Portugal also won a gold.

                            And if the overall showing was poor, it was partly because the former Soviets did so well. Russia had 18 medals, Belarus had 7 and Ukraine 5.
                            T&F was one of the few sports where Russia did well...I recently read an article about how their sports system has fallen into decay, but they are now starting to jumpstart it with all their oil/natural gas money!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CrunchTime
                              Originally posted by Powell
                              Originally posted by AthleticsInBritain
                              Doesn't Britain count as western Europe still? You can add our 4 medals to the total as well.
                              Precisely. Some Western European countries did badly, but others did all right. Belgium and Norway had a gold and a silver each, and Portugal also won a gold.

                              And if the overall showing was poor, it was partly because the former Soviets did so well. Russia had 18 medals, Belarus had 7 and Ukraine 5.
                              T&F was one of the few sports where Russia did well...I recently read an article about how their sports system has fallen into decay, but they are now starting to jumpstart it with all their oil/natural gas money!!
                              And focus on nationalism

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hey, if Britain is going to call itself part of the Western Europe, they need to start using the Euro! :wink: (Just kidding, fellas....)

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