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The downfall of Western European T&F

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  • #31
    Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

    Originally posted by croflash
    Spain, France, Italy, Sweden and Germany have won a total of 4 medals in T&F at these Olympics, two of them in the race walk. Even if you had low expectations for those nations, this is a borderline embarrassing summary.
    Anybody know where one can obtain a list of all doping infringements, so as to make a valid comparison of where these nations stack up against the United States, Russia, and other countries?

    Strange that in Western Europe, where they are more open-minded around alternative, herbal remedies, I cannot think of any issues popping in or up around pseudoephedrine, ephedrine and phenylpropanolamine.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

      Originally posted by Novitiate
      Originally posted by croflash
      Spain, France, Italy, Sweden and Germany have won a total of 4 medals in T&F at these Olympics, two of them in the race walk. Even if you had low expectations for those nations, this is a borderline embarrassing summary.
      Anybody know where one can obtain a list of all doping infringements, so as to make a valid comparison of where these nations stack up against the United States, Russia, and other countries?
      Here's a start:
      http://uk.reuters.com/article/olympicsN ... dChannel=0


      http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation ... galey.html

      I saw a list on the web (organized by country) recently, but I can't seem to dig it up.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

        Originally posted by joeltetreault
        Here's a start:
        http://uk.reuters.com/article/olympicsN ... dChannel=0


        http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation ... galey.html

        I saw a list on the web (organized by country) recently, but I can't seem to dig it up.
        Thanks! No doubt one could contact Dr. Wade Exum for further elucidation, but that would certainly get them banned here, no?

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

          Originally posted by Novitiate
          Originally posted by joeltetreault
          Here's a start:
          http://uk.reuters.com/article/olympicsN ... dChannel=0


          http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation ... galey.html

          I saw a list on the web (organized by country) recently, but I can't seem to dig it up.
          Thanks! No doubt one could contact Dr. Wade Exum for further elucidation, but that would certainly get them banned here, no?
          Here's the list I was thinking of:

          http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?s ... &type=lgns

          Greece, Bulgaria and Russia are the biggest offenders...

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by eldrick

            portugal - ribero 12y ago & was lucky to beat an inexplicably poor wang & as soon as the thopys came thru in numbers, she got crushed
            :lol: That's bull! Ribeiro was a more than worthy winner in Atlanta, and Wang was just lucky she got away with her rubbish for so long. Ribeiro also managed a bronze in Sydney

            1 Tulu Derartu ETH 30:17.49 (CR)
            2 Wami Gete ETH 30:22.48 (PB)
            3 Ribeiro Fernanda POR 30:22.88 (NR)


            Hardly "Crushed" :roll: and a time that would still hold up- despite the fact that as soon as the "thopys" :? came through, she was in her 30's!
            What a clown! So quick to put down the accomplishments of one of the all time greats, can't even spell her name and gives his opinion as if it holds some sort of significance! Joker!

            Comment


            • #36
              Ribeiro also beat Tulu at the 1995 World Champs and I thought her bronze in Sydney was a great achievement, having spent most of the last 2-3y injured.

              Can I ask why wasn't Ribeiro selected for Beijing?? She said she wanted to go and she had the B standard but still wasn't selected, despite the fact Rui Pedro Silva was selected for the men's 10000m, despite the fact he only had the B standard. :?
              http://twitter.com/Trackside2011

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

                Originally posted by joeltetreault

                Greece, Bulgaria and Russia are the biggest offenders...
                Ridiculous. As they say in Ireland, póg mo thóin ......

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... s_in_sport

                http://www.usatf.org/about/legal/antidoping/DQs.asp

                :lol:

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

                  Originally posted by AthleticsInBritain
                  Doesn't Britain count as western Europe still? You can add our 4 medals to the total as well. Somehow we managed to grab 5th spot on the placings table, but way behind the top 4 nations on points.
                  Considering its size, Britain is outstanding in Athletics.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jaack
                    That's bull! Ribeiro was a more than worthy winner in Atlanta, and Wang was just lucky she got away with her rubbish for so long. Ribeiro also managed a bronze in Sydney
                    i was going to say, why on earth is the opinion of a guy who watched that race in short trousers be of any use to anyone here ?

                    however, having looked at ribeiro's stats, she was better than i used to give her credit for

                    from wiki

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernanda_Ribeiro

                    she chased clock once when she ran 14'36wr - call it 14'35

                    nothing of note apart from an 8'39i - those are usually 5 -7s quicker outdoors & also unlikely perfectly paced race, so maybe 8'30 - 8'32

                    if she'd managed 8'32 - 8'34 / 14'35 in '96 ,

                    14'35 / 8'30 -> ~ 2'05.7 , 4'04.9 , 5'32.1 , 30'17.9

                    14'35 / 8'32 -> ~ 2'07.6 , 4'07.2 , 5'34.5 , 30'08.8

                    possibly worth close to 30'10 in '96, so better than i'd given her credit for

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Ribeiro's outdoor PB is 8:30, and that probably doesn't do her much justice because this was set in 1999, when she wasn't having a very good year. I think Ribeiro always had the ability to break the 30-minute barrier in her career but injuries and a lack of opportunity probably stood in the way.
                      http://twitter.com/Trackside2011

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

                        Originally posted by Novitiate
                        Originally posted by joeltetreault

                        Greece, Bulgaria and Russia are the biggest offenders...
                        Ridiculous. As they say in Ireland, póg mo thóin ......

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... s_in_sport

                        http://www.usatf.org/about/legal/antidoping/DQs.asp

                        :lol:
                        I had no idea about some of those guys!
                        Kenta Bell? :shock:
                        Crystal Cox?
                        MARY DECKER?????? :shock:
                        Dreschler?? :shock:
                        Greg Foster?? :shock: :shock:
                        Natasha Myers
                        MARY ONYALI???????? :shock: :cry:
                        Prokhorova?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Jaack
                          Originally posted by eldrick

                          portugal - ribero 12y ago & was lucky to beat an inexplicably poor wang & as soon as the thopys came thru in numbers, she got crushed
                          :lol: That's bull! Ribeiro was a more than worthy winner in Atlanta, and Wang was just lucky she got away with her rubbish for so long. Ribeiro also managed a bronze in Sydney

                          1 Tulu Derartu ETH 30:17.49 (CR)
                          2 Wami Gete ETH 30:22.48 (PB)
                          3 Ribeiro Fernanda POR 30:22.88 (NR)


                          Hardly "Crushed" :roll: and a time that would still hold up- despite the fact that as soon as the "thopys" :? came through, she was in her 30's!
                          What a clown! So quick to put down the accomplishments of one of the all time greats, can't even spell her name and gives his opinion as if it holds some sort of significance! Joker!
                          Ribeiro
                          '95 gold 10K, silver 5K
                          '96 gold 10K
                          '97 silver 10K bronze 5K
                          '00 bronze 10K

                          Quite an impressive resume!
                          Cheers,
                          Alan Shank

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: The downfall of Western European T&F

                            Originally posted by Jaack
                            Originally posted by Novitiate
                            Originally posted by joeltetreault

                            Greece, Bulgaria and Russia are the biggest offenders...
                            Ridiculous. As they say in Ireland, póg mo thóin ......

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... s_in_sport

                            http://www.usatf.org/about/legal/antidoping/DQs.asp

                            :lol:
                            I had no idea about some of those guys!
                            Kenta Bell? :shock:
                            Crystal Cox?
                            MARY DECKER?????? :shock:
                            Dreschler?? :shock:
                            Greg Foster?? :shock: :shock:
                            Natasha Myers
                            MARY ONYALI???????? :shock: :cry:
                            Prokhorova?
                            But people like Onyali and Bell only served three month or six month bans in their career. I think Decker's ban was overturned?

                            I'm not exactly surprised but I didn't know Devyatovskiy was banned.
                            http://twitter.com/Trackside2011

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by eldrick
                              different era with no floods of africans to deal with

                              imo, few of those woud have been elite champs if curent calibre of africans were competing back then
                              I don't necessarily agree with this statement.
                              Africa was even more primitive and isolated at that time, and without Western training methods, I don't think their athletes could have beaten Europe's best.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                your missing the point

                                the african talent we see today didn't simply evolve in last 30y - it's been there for few thousand years - they are now getting opportunity to show it

                                if they had had the current day opportunities 30y ago, then i doubt a fraction of the western names there wouda set wrs or won golds

                                it took 'till late '80s/early '90s for 13'00/27'00 barriers to be breached when we started getting some africans in bunches turning up on the circuit

                                my gut feeling is that we'd have got there in the '70s if we'd had sufficient africans around just using '70s training methods ( rono, an over-raced & not properly race-paced guy comes to mind as a template )

                                i'm not too sure about "western" training methods - likes of keino/abebe/jipcho/kipkurgat/boit/bayi/yifter/etc either won golds/broke wrs/almost broke wrs with whatever training they had in '60s/'70s - i doubt the african coaches were taking phd's in lydiard/daniels back then

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