Importance of speed in the long jump

[spikey]

Has any world or olympic champion LJer NOT had world class 100m speed (sub 10.3)?
My question is this: Compared with the high jump or hurdles, how much "skill" do people feel is involved here and why are there so few top sprinters competing in this event?

[26mi235]

Speed is important, but it is take-off speed and not 100m speed (or even 40m speed). It also has to be harnessed with precision, translated into vertical motion, combined with 'hops', and repeated six times in a short time span.

Not many sprinters fit these criteria and want the lower returns of LJ vs 100. Note that there are different but similar issues in the 110h/100h and these would seem to be even closer 'cousins'.

[Paul Henry]

Re: Importance of speed in the long jump

Has any world or olympic champion LJer NOT had world class 100m speed (sub 10.3)?
My question is this: Compared with the high jump or hurdles, how much "skill" do people feel is involved here and why are there so few top sprinters competing in this event?

Carl Lewis for one. Much skill is required here. I believe many sprinters shy away from the LJ 100m double due to risk of injury. And 100m is such an imprtant sport to a sprinter.

[EPelle]

WR-holder had registered 10,45 (+1,0 m/s) speed six years before his record. Did his "speed" increase/decrease/remain the same in Tokyo versus his lifetime sprint best in Los Angeles?

Irving Saladino has run a lifetime best of 10,4h in the 100m (2004).

Larry Myricks ran a 10,26 (but had a better 20,03) one year before jumping 8,74m.

[croflash]

I'd be very surprised if Saladino has sub 10.3 speed, he never even looks like he is running full speed.

[Marlow]

Speed is important, but it is take-off speed and not 100m speed (or even 40m speed).

I want to take a little bit of exception there. You can't have 'great' takeoff speed w/o great 40m speed. There are those great sprinters who can't bring themselves to use their speed, and there are those jumpers who can utilize far more of their speed than others, and there are even those jumpers who can get away with less speed with a more optimal t/off angle, but yeah, speed kills in the LJ.

[26mi235]

Speed is important, but it is take-off speed and not 100m speed (or even 40m speed).

I want to take a little bit of exception there. You can't have 'great' takeoff speed w/o great 40m speed. There are those great sprinters who can't bring themselves to use their speed, and there are those jumpers who can utilize far more of their speed than others, and there are even those jumpers who can get away with less speed with a more optimal t/off angle, but yeah, speed kills in the LJ.

Your exception is appropriate; I think we are saying the same thing. What I mean is that the 40m speed, per se, is not relevant if you cannot take that speed. Now, it may be the case that someone with great speed will be in better control of their speed because they can be going 'very fast' while not quite being all-out and thus have more room for exercising the control needed for the jump but there is no guarantee that it is so for a given jumper.

[Paul Henry]

Point to note: Saladino is nowhere near the class of Lewis. When consistent 6.7s and 8.8s are considered.

[Novianv2]

This is such an interesting question...one that has been analyzed by a number of researchers. Clearly, speed at take-off is paramount to jumping far. Obviously there are a number of other factors that dictate distance e.g. applied forces, hip position, rigidity of the take-off leg, arm and leg swing speed, etc.

On the 40m speed tip, Yago Lamela comes to mind. I don't know what his 100m speed was but he used a very short approach. My guess is he was able to reach near maximum controlled speed over 30m. 8.53m was the result.

[eldrick]

speed always more important than angle if you want furthest possible jump

http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph11e/projectile.htm

put in ht of 1.20, speed 10 & angle 20 = 8.96m

now, you want to see which gives further jump by increasing speed or angle by 10%

1) increase angle : put in 22 instead of 20 & keep speed at 10 -> 9.33m

2) increase speed : put in 11 instead of 10 & keep angle at 20 -> 10.40m

go for speed every time

[Novianv2]

Nice link, Eldrick.

The only thing I would add is that an increase of speed makes it more challenging to maintain that angle of take-off. The athlete needs to be quicker in how he/she applies the force at the board in order to get the necessary vertical lift. Not easy to do as King Carl can attest.

I've often wondered how Beamon, Emmiyan and Walder jumped 8.75+ without the requisite speed. It would appear that Beamon blocked at the board on his 8.90m jump in order to get his height (i.e. he went short/long on his penultimate step). Emmiyan and Walder were hang jumpers who were both known to really pop off the board (large angles of take-off). In each case, each jump happened at altitude and with winds approaching the legal limit. Clearly, altitude and wind-speed made up for each jumper's natural lack of speed. I suppose this is why none of these jumpers approached these distances again.

Again, I wonder how "quickness" at take-off relates to distance. Lamela was quick. So was Erick Metcalfe. Saladino sure seemed quick on his 8.73m.

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[eldrick]

you're 100% right about increased speed & maintaining angle - almost impossible to do

unfortunately all the stats i had have been scrubbed apart from another the other page about powell & King in tokyo

speeds range from ~ 9.5 - 10m/s at take-off & angle from 18 - 22

the slow guys with 9.5m/s just have big angles of 21 - 22 degrees

The speeds (in m/s) for Mike Powell and Carl Lewis in Tokyo'91 were:
11-6m to the board / 6-1m to the board / horizontal speed at touch-down / horiz. speed at take-off / vert. speed at t-o
Mike POWELL 8.95m
10.79 / 10.94 / 11.00 / 9.09 / 3.70
Carl LEWIS 8.91m
11.23 / 11.26 / 11.06 / 9.72 / 3.22

finally powell's figures: combined speed was 9.81m/s (you do pythagoras on 9.09 & 3.70),his angle was arctan 3.7/9.09 = 22.14 degrees !! no wonder it was the WR,that's the biggest angle we've seen! assume ht. was 1.25m (same ht. as King) & his predicted jump comes out at:

9.15m !

to be honest with you PJ,you may have to use a slightly lower ht. of COM for him,because,in order to jump 22 degrees+,you will have to sink those hips down a lot more at the take-off: however even a ht. of 1.2m gives a jump of 9.07m

[26mi235]

Nice link, Eldrick.

The only thing I would add is that an increase of speed makes it more challenging to maintain that angle of take-off. The athlete needs to be quicker in how he/she applies the force at the board in order to get the necessary vertical lift. Not easy to do as King Carl can attest.

I've often wondered how Beamon, Emmiyan and Walder jumped 8.75+ without the requisite speed. It would appear that Beamon blocked at the board on his 8.90m jump in order to get his height (i.e. he went short/long on his penultimate step). Emmiyan and Walder were hang jumpers who were both known to really pop off the board (large angles of take-off). In each case, each jump happened at altitude and with winds approaching the legal limit. Clearly, altitude and wind-speed made up for each jumper's natural lack of speed. I suppose this is why none of these jumpers approached these distances again.

Again, I wonder how "quickness" at take-off relates to distance. Lamela was quick. So was Erick Metcalfe. Saladino sure seemed quick on his 8.73m.

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Beamon only jumped >8.4 once, and that was in Mexico City with a strong wind at his back (>2mps), so that is too much of a one-off/aided jump to categorize him with the others. Emmiyan's big one was also at altitude, and I am not sure of the wind (and not certain of the validity, but cannot remember on this score). Part of the explanation is the 'hops' side of the equation, I am guessing.

[EPelle]

Note: Beamon turns 63 on friday.

[Novianv2]

Nice link, Eldrick.

The only thing I would add is that an increase of speed makes it more challenging to maintain that angle of take-off. The athlete needs to be quicker in how he/she applies the force at the board in order to get the necessary vertical lift. Not easy to do as King Carl can attest.

I've often wondered how Beamon, Emmiyan and Walder jumped 8.75+ without the requisite speed. It would appear that Beamon blocked at the board on his 8.90m jump in order to get his height (i.e. he went short/long on his penultimate step). Emmiyan and Walder were hang jumpers who were both known to really pop off the board (large angles of take-off). In each case, each jump happened at altitude and with winds approaching the legal limit. Clearly, altitude and wind-speed made up for each jumper's natural lack of speed. I suppose this is why none of these jumpers approached these distances again.

Again, I wonder how "quickness" at take-off relates to distance. Lamela was quick. So was Erick Metcalfe. Saladino sure seemed quick on his 8.73m.



Beamon only jumped >8.4 once, and that was in Mexico City with a strong wind at his back (>2mps), so that is too much of a one-off/aided jump to categorize him with the others. Emmiyan's big one was also at altitude, and I am not sure of the wind (and not certain of the validity, but cannot remember on this score). Part of the explanation is the 'hops' side of the equation, I am guessing.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned Beamon's take-off. I was always taught "long/short" when learning the penultimate step. Beamon did the opposite on his 8.90m. I'm wondering if this is what helped him get that ridiculous height off the board?

Eldrick: Did Powel have a larger angle of take-off than Beamon?