First 4 minute flat mile?

[runforfun]

Here's a trivia question that isn't very relevant, but, I'm curious...any of you stat whiz's out there know the circumstances of the first exactly 4 minute flat mile was run? I almost wrote first 4:00.00 mile, but it may have been before electronic timing was the norm.

[paulthefan]

the probability is very very small.

[Daisy]

the probability is very very small.

Actually i think the probability might be pretty high.

Look at pela2's site for the mile.

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_mileok.htm

317    3:52.0     John Walker, NZL 11.07.1977
527    3:53.00    Joaquim Carvalho Cruz, BRA 13.05.1984
755    3:54.00    John Walker, NZL 27.08.1980
755    3:54.00    Steve Cram, GBR 20.09.1986
755    3:54.00+   Ismaïl Sghyr, FRA 12.07.1995
975    3:55.00    Hervé Phélippeau, FRA 06.07.1991
975    3:55.00+   Daniel Komen, KEN 01.09.1996

There are no times listed for 3:56, 57, 58, 59 or 4:00 but I imagine there is more chance at those milestones since more milers will be achieving those times.

[scottmitchell74]

Seems like there's just as much chance for a 4:00.00 as there would be a 3:59.99 or 4:00.01. I can't imagine that it hasn't happened.

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.asp ... &PageNum=2

. An exact 4:00.00 was first achieved on September 3, 1958 by England's Derek Ibbotson in a fourth-place finish behind Herb Elliott at White City.

If you trust the source/link.

[catson52]

Seems like there's just as much chance for a 4:00.00 as there would be a 3:59.99 or 4:00.01. I can't imagine that it hasn't happened.

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.asp ... &PageNum=2

. An exact 4:00.00 was first achieved on September 3, 1958 by England's Derek Ibbotson in a fourth-place finish behind Herb Elliott at White City.

If you trust the source/link.

World Sports wrote up some 45-48 years back that the correct answer to the first man to run a 4:00.0 mile was Derek Ibbotson. Didn't recall that he placed fourth in that race though. But checked it in "Runners and Races". There it is on p. 212, both Ibbotson and Mike Blagrove (fifth) were clocked in 4:00.0 on 9/3/58. (Elliott first - 3:55.4, Hewson - 3:58.9, Orywal (Poland) - 3:59.7).

[Cottonshirt]

This is a common trivia question in this country and the usual answer is that it was Derek Ibbotson. I don't have the details to hand but I will look it up for you.


Many thanks,


Martin

[mikli]

Ibbotson is the correct answer for 4:00.0h, but electronic 4:00.00? That is a much more difficult question. It probably has been done, not in 2005-2008, though.

[Cottonshirt]

It was an evening floodlit meeting at the White City, London, sponsored by the Evening News (a newspaper), a match between Warsaw and London for men and women, with some international standard invites for added interest.

Herb Elliott had recently broken the world mile record and there was a lot of interest in his performance.

...after Marsden led through quarters in 59.6 and 2:00.4, Elliott took the lead at the start of the back straight and though Hewson held him until the bell, reached in 2:59.6, he ran right away when he turned the heat on over the last 300 yards to win by 25 yards in 3:55.4, a White City record.

1. H. Elliott (Australia) 3:55.4
2. B. Hewson (Mitcham AC) 3:58.9 pb
3. Z. Orywal (Warsaw) 3:59.7
4. D. Ibbotson (London) 4:00.0
5. M. Blagrove (London) 4:00.0 pb
6. S. Lewandowski (Warsaw) 4:01.7
7. G. Everett (Shettleston) 4:03.8
8. M. Berisford (Sale Harriers) 4:05.3

Warsaw won the men's match 82 points to 72, but lost the women's match 29 points to 33.

Report from AW 12.37.14


Many thanks,



Martin

[wineturtle]

high school kids asks me who was first sub 4min 1600...

do we give gunder haggs 4:01.4 from 1945 the first sub 4 1600 or does the good dr bannister get it ?

[Conor Dary]

Re: high school kids asks me who was first sub 4min 1600...

do we give gunder haggs 4:01.4 from 1945 the first sub 4 1600 or does the good dr bannister get it ?

When Hagg ran 4:01.4 his 1500 split was 3:45.4. A difference of 16.0 seconds.

16 X 100/109.36 = 14.6 seconds

14.6 + 3:45.4 =4:00.0

QED

[andyjgt]

I think I kinda remember Gary Lough did one in 1994 (he placed 8th in the race, I think it was a UK meet, I believe Sonia O'Sullivan broke either the world 2000 or Euro 3000 record at the same meet).

[runforfun]

So it is Derek Ibbotson...darn those Brits...they get all the firsts in the mile!

[catson52]

Re: high school kids asks me who was first sub 4min 1600...

do we give gunder haggs 4:01.4 from 1945 the first sub 4 1600 or does the good dr bannister get it ?

When Hagg ran 4:01.4 his 1500 split was 3:45.4. A difference of 16.0 seconds.

16 X 100/109.36 = 14.6 seconds

14.6 + 3:45.4 =4:00.0

QED

I note that Hagg's time was 4:01.3, rounded up to 4:01.4. Two official watches showed 4:01.3 and one 4:01.2 (taken from Runners and Races).

[paulthefan]

wait a second here, what is the resolution that we are demanding for equality. Is it 1/100th second accuracy.

[Cottonshirt]

So it is Derek Ibbotson...darn those Brits...they get all the firsts in the mile!

Well no, not really. But until quite recently I would have agreed with you.

I have for some unaccountable reason got to this point in my life under the impression that the first man to run a mile in under four minutes indoors was Ron Delaney.

I have just this week discovered that my impression is wrong. So that's one where I tip my hat to the Americans.


Martin