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  • EPelle
    replied
    Really? Funny. But not really funny. Really.

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  • kamikaze7
    replied
    Originally posted by EPelle
    Madd Marine, I:m glad you brought up Borzakovskiy. I was intending to discuss him last night (tuesday), but didn:t want to revive the Olympic 800m thread for a small point.

    Front-page news (last night) had an article on Borzakovskiy. He:d gone into hiding (first plane back to Moscow following his race) and become a recluse in some ways. He attributed his lack of qualifying to not having had enough time to get over the jet lag (three rest days between flight and quarter-final), and weather. He made a similar mention in Eugene last year when he was beaten to the finish line at Pre, namely that travel got to him.

    He:ll need a bit better planning next year if he:s truly intent on winning the World Championships like he suggested, but his travels from Moscow to Germany should not set him off any.
    It is one of the lamest excuses ever. Epelle you buy anything from the Russians. They could sell you the statue of liberty. Emphasis on liberty.

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  • malmo
    replied
    Originally posted by joeltetreault

    Now Kaki - what happened to him?
    No idea, and couldn't care.

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  • malmo
    replied
    Originally posted by rasb
    I don't know about Kaki. But back to Borza for a moment --- jet lag, temperature change, headache, sounds like yadayadayada to me. .
    Not really. Traveling halfway around the world is full of surprises. Exposure to new (strains) microbes, it's not unusual to have fevers that last a few days. Additionally individuals do not respond to temperature changes the same way. Coming from cooler dry climes to hot humid ones definitely causes lethargy, severe lethargy for some.

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  • rasb
    replied
    I don't know about Kaki. But back to Borza for a moment --- jet lag, temperature change, headache, sounds like yadayadayada to me. Maybe he was just in "emotional mourning" for all the Russian middle distance women who didn't quite make it to the Games.

    Leave a comment:


  • joeltetreault
    replied
    Originally posted by rasb
    Originally posted by malmo
    If Borzakovskiy flew in from Irkutsk then there in no jet lag at all, making his quote completely irrelevant.
    Agreed. But then one has to wonder why an extremely experienced and successful International runner such as Borza. continues to blame jet lag when he doesn't run well.
    It's a weird quote. Then again, it could be taken out of context or mis-quoted. Who knows when he actually left for Irkutsk after Monaco, for example. That would definitely impact jetlag if he were in Irkutsk only for a few days. It could be the case that his body just reacted differently compared to all the other times he made this journey and it caught him off guard. The article does mention he had issues with the temperature change and had a really bad headache on top of that, so jetlag was not the only reason for his performance.

    Now Kaki - what happened to him?

    Leave a comment:


  • rasb
    replied
    Originally posted by malmo
    If Borzakovskiy flew in from Irkutsk then there in no jet lag at all, making his quote completely irrelevant.
    Agreed. But then one has to wonder why an extremely experienced and successful International runner such as Borza. continues to blame jet lag when he doesn't run well.

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  • malmo
    replied
    If Borzakovskiy flew in from Irkutsk then there in no jet lag at all, making his quote completely irrelevant.

    Leave a comment:


  • joeltetreault
    replied
    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by joeltetreault
    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by EPelle
    Yep. By his own admission he let himself down by not having sufficient recovery between leaving his base camp and running his first race.
    By being in Russia, it's not as though he makes any West to East time zone changes, so he wouldn't have any experience with jet lag. Now he does.
    Not necessarily true. He ran in Sydney in '00, Melbourne (GPF) in '01 and of course did the same trip last summer for the Osaka WC's where he finished third (the Rus team training center was also in Vladivostok last year).
    and Vladivostok, is that in or near the same time zone as those competition venues or not?

    Borzakovskiy, by virtue of geography, goes West to East in almost all of his competitions, where jet lag would never be an issue. By citing 3 times that he went West to East , either arriving at least a week or two early (or more) or running a one day fina (GPF)l, is not remotely comparable to arriving 3 days before a multiple round contest.
    The fact that he did it three times shows that he does have experience with the West-East flights, and thus jetlag. This is contrary to what you originally wrote where you thought he didn't do this before. Also he did say in the article that he knew what days he tended to feel the effects of jetlag, thus showing his expertise in the matter. This wasn't a guy who made this trip for the first time.

    Also, his training base for '08 was in Irkutsk (eastern Russia) which is a minimal time difference back from Beijing, a similar situation to Vladivostok/Osaka last year. This wasn't like he dropped in from Moscow three days in advance or anything.

    Fyi, Vladivostok is on the eastern coast of Russia.
    maps.google.com

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Originally posted by joeltetreault
    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by EPelle
    Yep. By his own admission he let himself down by not having sufficient recovery between leaving his base camp and running his first race.
    By being in Russia, it's not as though he makes any West to East time zone changes, so he wouldn't have any experience with jet lag. Now he does.
    Not necessarily true. He ran in Sydney in '00, Melbourne (GPF) in '01 and of course did the same trip last summer for the Osaka WC's where he finished third (the Rus team training center was also in Vladivostok last year).
    and Vladivostok, is that in or near the same time zone as those competition venues or not?

    Borzakovskiy, by virtue of geography, goes West to East in almost all of his competitions, where jet lag would never be an issue. By citing 3 times that he went West to East , either arriving at least a week or two early (or more) or running a one day fina (GPF)l, is not remotely comparable to arriving 3 days before a multiple round contest.

    Leave a comment:


  • joeltetreault
    replied
    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by EPelle
    Yep. By his own admission he let himself down by not having sufficient recovery between leaving his base camp and running his first race.
    By being in Russia, it's not as though he makes any West to East time zone changes, so he wouldn't have any experience with jet lag. Now he does.
    Not necessarily true. He ran in Sydney in '00, Melbourne (GPF) in '01 and of course did the same trip last summer for the Osaka WC's where he finished third (the Rus team training center was also in Vladivostok last year).

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Originally posted by EPelle
    Yep. By his own admission he let himself down by not having sufficient recovery between leaving his base camp and running his first race.
    By being in Russia, it's not as though he makes any West to East time zone changes, so he wouldn't have any experience with jet lag. Now he does.

    Leave a comment:


  • Madd Marine
    replied
    So you're talking about being a "deserving winner" rather than "deserving to win". :wink:

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  • eldrick
    replied
    Originally posted by Madd Marine
    Why would Bungei have deserved gold in '04 over any of the other runners in the Oly final? Heck, maybe Kipketer deserved it because he has the WR. I guess Borzakovskiy cheated by kicking everyone down the last 100 meters.

    Bungei "deserved" it this year because he won the race. The only disappoint for me was the fact that Kaki, Borza etc were ko'd in the heats.
    "deserving to win" based on recent accomplishments is a concept you have to decide upon by yourself - someone is going to win the title - whether they are generally considered a worthy/great/derserving/etc champ is for fans to decide

    certainly, a guy who has been a/the outstanding performer of recent times, like bungei ( & borza ) in '04 almost certainly believe they "deserved" the title on recent accomplishments - personally, i'd agree with them ( kip didn't "deserve" it so much as he'd been on the slide past coupla seasons - but being the wr holder, he may have felt he deserved it )

    i didn't think bungei "deserved" the title here because of lack of fast times ( which for him, i assumed was the only way to win, as he is no tactical master ) & generally low key season, but when kaki/borza failed, he had chance of a medal & in the end his strength thru rounds paid off !

    i'd suggest the acid-test of whether you don't believe in the concept of "deserving to win" based on recent accomplishments, is to watch that short-track skating race of that ozzie guy winning

    if you can watch that race & believe he "deserved to win" because he simply crossed the line 1st, then you will never cross the line to recent accomplishments being deserving of being rewarded with a gold

    Leave a comment:


  • EPelle
    replied
    Yep. By his own admission he let himself down by not having sufficient recovery between leaving his base camp and running his first race.

    Leave a comment:

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