Berlin Marathon - Sept 28

[joeltetreault]

With two weeks to go, Haile seems confident about his WR chances if the weather is ok:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/ ... rathon.php

Has anyone heard news on the elite fields?

[doug091463]

the only ones besides geb i have heard is james kwambai a former half marathon world champ and toshinari suwa of japan who has a 2:07.55 best.

[doug091463]

i saw a few more names who will run in berlin in a iaaf article.

falk cierpinski son of waldemar cierpinski will run he just won a road 10k in 29:19 sunday.

36 year old irin mititenko who ran a 2009 10k road world lead of 30:57 on sunday.
askale tafa who has run 2:23
rose cheruyiot who has a 2:25 best
helena kiprop who has run 2:26.

[Run DMC]

I love Geb, but as usual he is running a Marathon Time Trial set up for him with no real competition to worry about.

[doug091463]

I love Geb, but as usual he is running a Marathon Time Trial set up for him with no real competition to worry about.

hey he announced months ago he was running berlin, so any runner who wanted a shot at him had their chance, or should i say has their chance as i am sure any runner/runners who have any chance of challenging geb, i am sure all the good runners have agents who could call the race director tomorrow and get them in the race, the race director would be very happy to have a robert cheriyiot, patrick makau, william kipsang etc. to challenge geb.

[26mi235]

I love Geb, but as usual he is running a Marathon Time Trial set up for him with no real competition to worry about.

hey he announced months ago he was running berlin, so any runner who wanted a shot at him had their chance, or should i say has their chance as i am sure any runner/runners who have any chance of challenging geb, i am sure all the good runners have agents who could call the race director tomorrow and get them in the race, the race director would be very happy to have a robert cheriyiot, patrick makau, william kipsang etc. to challenge geb.

And they will pay him ten cents to do it. Clearly, if the Race Director wanted competition he would be getting it. The entry list is the result of the race director, not top athletes, who select their few marathon options. I am a Geb fan, but I am less and less a fan of this approach, especially when it has been repeated so often. One thing Geb has not done is won a marathon; he has lost the races he has been in and has generally succeeded in his time trials.

[SQUACKEE]

I love Geb, but as usual he is running a Marathon Time Trial set up for him with no real competition to worry about.

hey he announced months ago he was running berlin, so any runner who wanted a shot at him had their chance, or should i say has their chance as i am sure any runner/runners who have any chance of challenging geb, i am sure all the good runners have agents who could call the race director tomorrow and get them in the race, the race director would be very happy to have a robert cheriyiot, patrick makau, william kipsang etc. to challenge geb.

And they will pay him ten cents to do it. Clearly, if the Race Director wanted competition he would be getting it. The entry list is the result of the race director, not top athletes, who select their few marathon options. I am a Geb fan, but I am less and less a fan of this approach, especially when it has been repeated so often. One thing Geb has not done is won a marathon; he has lost the races he has been in and has generally succeeded in his time trials.

I agree. Is there a Geb fan who would rather see a "time trial" more than the Emperor toe the line in London with Sammy and co.?

[kuha]

I'm perfectly happy with his "time trials."

[26mi235]

Can anyone tell me what 'races' Geb has won over the last six years. He has won several time trials but what I am asking about is races with top-level opponents like the Olympic 10,000s, the circuit 10,000 this year, the London Marathon with Tergat and KK.

[az2004]

i'd rather geb race against the best, and not against the clock....

he's an all time great, but his resume would be greater with big scalps, NOT just fast times

[joeltetreault]

Can anyone tell me what 'races' Geb has won over the last six years. He has won several time trials but what I am asking about is races with top-level opponents like the Olympic 10,000s, the circuit 10,000 this year, the London Marathon with Tergat and KK.

Someone with their tilastopaja account ready to go can probably answer this question best, but here's a few in the last six years:

2003 - World Indoor Champs GOLD
2006 - won Fukuoka Marathon (beat out Gharib in a specifically non-WR race two months after Berlin).
2007 - won NYC Half-Mara, won Lisbon Half-Mara

In '03 and '04 he also ran some decent 2M indoor races and a few 5000m races (beat out Mottram in London for instance). I think his Tilburg 10M had some decent people in it? Anyway, sorry if this was a little train of thought with the results. I think one thing to remember is that for the 10000m, he is more focused on longer distances and doesn't have as much speed as before. So the fact he is even still stepping to the line and racing in the top places in all his 10000s the past 6 years, and still being ranked time-wise and TFN-wise for those races is pretty amazing (to me). It also shows he has no problem racing the big guns.

My feeling is that for right now his biggest overriding goal is to put that marathon WR as far away as possible. If you look at the interviews with him and his coach the last two years, they always talk about that and ways of adjusting training and race efforts to eek out every possible second. I just get the impression that running a 2:03:XX marathon is all he wants to do right now. Given everything he has accomplished and everyone he has raced the last 15 years, if he wants to just run for pure time for a few years, it is fine by me. And if he feels the best way to get that sort of time is to run with several pacers without much worry of competition that is also fine by me (though in Berlin last year, if he a slightly off-day, second or third could have picked him off). I figure once he gets that 2:03 out of his system, his race schedule will change. Would I like to see him run in London or Chicago? Sure. But I am ok with what he wants to do with running right now too. Anyway, just my two cents.

[26mi235]

"My feeling is that for right now his biggest overriding goal is to put that marathon WR as far away as possible."

I think that he wants to set it one more time before the Olympic Champ sets it where Geb might have trouble breaking it again.

[SQUACKEE]

I'm perfectly happy with his "time trials."

I am also with the time trials but would be seeing sammy and geb hammering together with 2 miles to go.

[kuha]

Can anyone tell me what 'races' Geb has won over the last six years. He has won several time trials but what I am asking about is races with top-level opponents like the Olympic 10,000s, the circuit 10,000 this year, the London Marathon with Tergat and KK.

Amend that to "over the last sixteen years" and I think you'll have just what you want. His career is his career; I'm happy with whatever he chooses to do.

[Master Po]

I really appreciate kuha's sentiments and joel's post above -- well-stated -- Geb has shown over and over at various distances his willingness to take on the best in big races, championship and otherwise. But also endorse squakee -- I too would love to see Geb and Wanjiru really going at it -- such opportunities are rare, and they would have a great chance of really putting down a fast time in a great race.

It is worth looking again at some of Geb's marathons -- no time to go through all the results in detail to see what other competitors with fast credentials were in some of these races, but it's worth reminding ourselves that his big margins of victory don't automatically equal non-competitive "time-trial" races. Even a quick glance at some of the results shows that there were other fast runners in some of of those fields, who could have beaten him had he not run his best on that day, or just run the competition into the ground early with an incredibly fast early pace, as in Dubai. E.g., in his victories:

Dubai 2008
1 Geb 2:04:53
2 I. Macharia 2:07:16 (PB)
3 S. Korir 2:08:01 (2:04:56 PB at the time of that race)

Berlin 2007
1 Geb 2:04:26
2 I. Kirui 2:06:51 (PB)
3 S. Kipsang 2:07:29 (PB)

Fukuoka 2006
1 Geb 2:06:52
2 D. Baranovsky 2:07:15 (PB)
3 J. Gharib 2:07:19 (2:07:02 PB at the time of that race)

Berlin 2006
1 Geb 2:05:56
2 G. Shentema 2:10:43 (2:09 PB at the time of that race, I think; has since run 2:07:34)

Amsterdam 2005
1 Geb 2:06:20
2 D. Yego 2:08:58 (2:08:16 PB at the time of that race)
3 T. Tola 2:09:17 (2:06:57 PB at the time of that race)


I suppose that we could find in any given season, at the time of these races, other top runners that we might have hoped would be there. But they were probably off collecting their own winnings at other top races. The economy of this creates some of the "problem." In any given season (Spring or Fall) top runners have several options for honors and $$. Not easy to bring them all together. Nevertheless, we mis-remember the history if we remember these victories as non-competitive "time-trials." Yes, there are pacers; yes, the conditions are managed down to the smallest possible detail that can be managed to ensure the best chance of WRs. And yes, the organization of pacing is set up to meet the needs of the guy they think has the best chance of establishing a WR. But there were worthy competitors in these races. On any given day, one of those guys could beat Geb if he faltered a bit, or raise his level of performance in the way that Korir did with Tergat in Berlin 2003.

All that said, I would still love to see Geb and Wanjiru racing together to 2:03:xx. But I'll "settle" for anticipating the possibility of another great time from Geb in Berlin!