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  • hjsteve1.97
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    a Supreme Court jurist once said " I cannot define pornography, but I know it when I see it."

    I cannot define an "Elite" performance, but when someone breaks 3:30 or 13:00, that is Elite to me. But those frequency #'s for faster times than that are indeed amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • kuha
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    One last note on the "elitism" issue. We need to be realistic in the country as to what constitutes "good" or "great" performances. Our insularity leads us to get just a tad too excited by, say, 3:37-type 1500 guys. The alltime outdoor stats as of now:

    1500:
    62 performances under 3:30
    100th: 3:30.63
    500th: 3:33.10
    1000th: 3:34.39

    5000:
    131 performances under 13:00
    100th: 12:58.57
    500th: 13:09.54
    873th: 13:14.98 (as far out as the list I checked goes)

    What we've got used to seeing in this country of late barely registers on the historical scale.

    Leave a comment:


  • kuha
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    I second marknhj's sentiments. Elitism is one of those dirty jobs that someone has to do, right? I love seeing track WRs and I also enjoy seeing the local girls' basketball games in which the daughter of my good friend plays. There's no "one" way to enjoy sport...and that's the beauty of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • marknhj
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    That kind of elitism is, indeed, an unfortunate condition. I know people
    >who have suffered from it, and I feel sorry for them.

    Tandfman, thank you for your pity. As I implied earlier I'll seek professional guidance to rid me of this awful condition. But rest assured, I'm of the same opinion of lower level soccer and other sports. I am at least consistent in my biases.

    Leave a comment:


  • marknhj
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    Tried that Steve, didn't work. I watch UCLA vs. USC every season and do enjoy that. There are always world class athletes on one team or other and I also have a pathalogic dislike of USC so enjoy UCLA beating them.

    On another note, I just read the Johnny Gray and Mark Everett are running in the Millrose. I thought they'd both retired. How old is Johnny? Is he seriously trying to make the Athens team?

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    Realist wrote:
    >That's a pre-season exhibition game in the world of real elite track.<

    Realist, you and I have had this discussions many times, and I'm sure we will continue to have it off line, notwithstanding the fact that we'll never convince each other. But since you've gone on record here, I'll put in my own two cents worth. I go to a lot of meets where I see "real elite trck." But I don't go to any that I enjoy more, year after year, than the Penn Relays. If you love pure track competition, you should love Penn.

    That having been said, I can't be sure that I can recommend Penn to the guy who started this sub-thread. I infer that he is one of those people who can't seem to imagine enjoying high school or college competition that doesn't involve world-class athletes. So while the rest of the 50,000 people there are going nuts over a very competitive high school 4x400 between a couple of Jamaican schools and a school from NJ and one from California in a 3:10 race, this guy would be unhappy because at the Olympics, they'll go under 3 minutes.

    That kind of elitism is, indeed, an unfortunate condition. I know people who have suffered from it, and I feel sorry for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • hjsteve1.97
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    go to a high school dual meet and just sit there and relax. It's FUN.

    Leave a comment:


  • marknhj
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    We should form some kind of support group or develop a 12 step program...guess what, never liked to admit it before but I'm an elitist too. Never get particularly excited about relays (except at the OG or WC's) or contrived competitions like USA Red vs. USA Blue. Any advice on how to cure this awful condition?

    Leave a comment:


  • kuha
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    I was exaggerating slightly, of course, but basically, yes, you're right! Admitting one has a problem (elitism) is the first step to finding a cure...or something like that.

    Leave a comment:


  • tafnut
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    "if a 1500 isn't under 3:30, or a 5000 under 13:00, who cares?"

    You just ruled out the NCAA's and the Olympic Trials, two of the best meets on the planet. And I though I was an elitest! I don't buy 'it's all about the competition' either, because you can get that literally anywhere - but you have just made T&F a very tough sport to 'enjoy.'

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    KevinM's list of Penn appearees in one day is indeed impressive, but is there anybody on that list who competed in an individual event that day? Not everybody in the world is enamoured of watching relay events, particularly contrived ones that compose of two highly paid Nike teams masquerading as USA Red and USA Blue. That's a pre-season exhibition game in the world of real elite track.

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  • kuha
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    I agree with Steve. I fully admit to being a terrible track snob--if a 1500 isn't under 3:30, or a 5000 under 13:00, who cares? BUT, I have to say that meets like Penn represent something vital and important about the sport--the involvement of many athletes & families, the carnival-like atmosphere, the tradition, etc. It's a nice "throwback" to an earlier era...

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  • KevinM
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    Miler Monkey,

    I suggest taking a look at the results of Penn Relays sometime. If you look at the Championship events, these are the very best collegiate athletes in the nation. Once you get to the USA vs the World events, you get even higher caliber. Athletes I saw compete in one day at Penn:

    Marion Jones
    Michael Johnson
    Maurice Greene
    Tim Harden
    Jon Drummond
    Kim Collins
    Darvis Patton
    Alan Webb
    Mike Stember
    Jon Riley
    Leonard Scott
    Justin Gatlin
    Inger Miller
    Christie Gaines
    Walter Davis
    Dathan Ritzenhein

    The list is incomplete and should be much longer. This was one day.

    Leave a comment:


  • hjsteve1.97
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    you should go. The overall atmosphere is really neat, plus on Saturday, those championship relays at the University Level are very high caliber.

    Leave a comment:


  • miler monkey
    replied
    Re: Millrose Games

    I'd pay
    >$60-70 (or even more) to see Penn Relays (it's only $30). Penn Relays is WORTH
    >EVERY PENNY!!!!!!!!

    Curious about this -- I've tried to convince myself for years that I should head up the road to Penn Relays, but because my interest (admittedly elitist, jaded) is in world-class or national-class competition, not high-school or "league-class" college events, I've never felt much interest in going to Penn. It just seems to be a lot of high-school and minor-league collegians running relays. Absolutely wonderful as an event to participate in, but would I really enjoy being in the stands? Advise, please --

    Leave a comment:

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