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Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

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    imaginative
    Senior Member

  • imaginative
    replied
    Re: Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

    Originally posted by RMc
    I made this observation (and on other events as well) as an indicator that drug testing is actually taking a bite out of illegal use.
    It probably is; however, I suspect that two other, related, factors are in
    play:

    1. Almost all women like to look good, and many dislike ``unfeminine''
    activities. Given an entirely free choice (unlike at least some instances in
    the old EE), comparatively few women interested in athletics would be pick the
    shot put, and fewer yet would be willing to put on large amounts of muscle and
    fat. The average female sprint/jumper is very sexy, the average shot putter is
    not.

    2. At least the DDR (possibly other EE nations too) had programs in place to
    identify potential athletes (in the broader sense) and put them in the right
    sport/event. This disproportionally increased the probability of 6' women
    ending up as throwers, and probably pushed up the performance level.

    (Does anyone have data on the heights of the throwers of old? This could be an
    interesting check of 2.)

    Leave a comment:

  • gh
    Administrator

  • gh
    replied
    Took a huge bite out as soon as random testing began almost 20 years ago... hence the calls for new WRs at the millennium (whichever version you subscribe to) when it was already so obvious what had happened.

    Leave a comment:

  • RMc
    Senior Member

  • RMc
    replied
    Re: Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

    Originally posted by nmzoo
    An examination of the all-time list for the women’s shot put reveals the following (this is from a list maintained by Peter Larsson with 531 entries going down to 20.75m/68’-3/4” and excludes indoor marks and 2nd/3rd etc. best marks from the same series):

    The women’s world record at the present time is 22.63m/74’7-3/4” by Natalya Lisovskaya (RUS) set in 1987 (21 years ago). The American record is 20.18m/66’2.5” by Ramona Pagel set in 1988.
    There have been only 10 additions to the top 337 on the list since 1990.
    You have to go down the list to #331 to find a mark from 2008 (21.98m/68’9.5”).
    Only one other 2008 put (20.90m/68’6”) even makes the top 531 at #397.
    There are only 4 throws since 1990 which rank in the top 240 of all time.
    There have been only 25 marks since 1990 which rank in the top 531 of all time, and 9 of those were by Chinese women throwing in China.
    Except for Germany and 1 Cuban, there are no non-Asians in the top 531 marks of all time.
    The 2008 Olympics were won with a put of 20.56m {67’5.25”), a throw more than 6’ under the world record and which would rank somewhere around 800th to 900th on the all-time list.
    91% of the entries on the list are either from USSR, (including its satellites), Germany (including GDR) or Czechoslovakia. Of the remainder, most are from Bulgaria.

    My solution - Increase the weight of the shot 10g and start over!
    I made this observation (and on other events as well) as an indicator that drug testing is actually taking a bite out of illegal use.

    Leave a comment:

  • catson52
    Senior Member

  • catson52
    replied
    Originally posted by nmzoo
    Actually I am planning on doing some other events, even some men's, but I thought the women's shot would be one of the more striking examples.

    As for natural progression overcoming the list, it is certainly trending in the wrong direction right now, and I can't imagine a 6-7 foot improvement in performances even in this century, which ought to catch most of us meeting up with the grim reaper.

    It's not like similar "rules" changes have not caused many prior performances (fiberglass poles, HJ changes, hurdle changes, and most notably javelin) to lose their proper place in history, although not for the reason(s) I am suggesting.
    I would be interested in what it shows for other events. And nmzoo is absolutely correct re the javelin throws. The discus, hammer throw and shot put can "easily be resolved" by changes in the implement. But what about the rest of the women's events, sprints, middle and long distances, and some others?

    Leave a comment:

  • nmzoo
    Senior Member

  • nmzoo
    replied
    Actually I am planning on doing some other events, even some men's, but I thought the women's shot would be one of the more striking examples.

    As for natural progression overcoming the list, it is certainly trending in the wrong direction right now, and I can't imagine a 6-7 foot improvement in performances even in this century, which ought to catch most of us meeting up with the grim reaper.

    It's not like similar "rules" changes have not caused many prior performances (fiberglass poles, HJ changes, hurdle changes, and most notably javelin) to lose their proper place in history, although not for the reason(s) I am suggesting.

    Leave a comment:

  • Frans Rutten
    Senior Member

  • Frans Rutten
    replied
    Re: Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

    Originally posted by nmzoo
    An examination of the all-time list for the women’s shot put reveals the following (this is from a list maintained by Peter Larsson with 531 entries going down to 20.75m/68’-3/4” and excludes indoor marks and 2nd/3rd etc. best marks from the same series):

    The women’s world record at the present time is 22.63m/74’7-3/4” by Natalya Lisovskaya (RUS) set in 1987 (21 years ago). The American record is 20.18m/66’2.5” by Ramona Pagel set in 1988.
    There have been only 10 additions to the top 337 on the list since 1990.
    You have to go down the list to #331 to find a mark from 2008 (21.98m/68’9.5”).
    Only one other 2008 put (20.90m/68’6”) even makes the top 531 at #397.
    There are only 4 throws since 1990 which rank in the top 240 of all time.
    There have been only 25 marks since 1990 which rank in the top 531 of all time, and 9 of those were by Chinese women throwing in China.
    Except for Germany and 1 Cuban, there are no non-Asians in the top 531 marks of all time.
    The 2008 Olympics were won with a put of 20.56m {67’5.25”), a throw more than 6’ under the world record and which would rank somewhere around 800th to 900th on the all-time list.
    91% of the entries on the list are either from USSR, (including its satellites), Germany (including GDR) or Czechoslovakia. Of the remainder, most are from Bulgaria.

    My solution - Increase the weight of the shot 10g and start over!
    If you got time to spare you could easily produce similar lists on discus throw, javelin throw, even high jump and long jump. Sprints although not so harsh. Middle distances.

    Leave a comment:

  • catson52
    Senior Member

  • catson52
    replied
    Re: Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

    Originally posted by Marlow
    Originally posted by nmzoo
    My solution - Increase the weight of the shot 10g and start over!
    That's called 'giving in to the b*stards'. Plus, it's assuming something not yet in evidence. Eventually, the natural progression of the event will sweep over the old marks and the victory will be twice as sweet.
    I like nmzoo's suggestion. A neat way of sidestepping a problem raised by the fact that the "obvious" cannot be proved in a court of law. As for waiting until natural progression sweeps over the old marks (down to say performance 350 on the list), by then, most of us who now participate in these discussions, will have had an encounter with the Grim Reaper.

    Leave a comment:

  • Marlow
    Senior Member

  • Marlow
    replied
    Re: Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

    Originally posted by nmzoo
    My solution - Increase the weight of the shot 10g and start over!
    That's called 'giving in to the b*stards'. Plus, it's assuming something not yet in evidence. Eventually, the natural progression of the event will sweep over the old marks and the victory will be twice as sweet.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShaunP
    replied
    Two Words.....

    ORAL TURINABOL


    Much greater effect on Women than Men!

    ShaunP

    Leave a comment:

  • nmzoo
    Senior Member

  • nmzoo
    started a topic Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

    Women's Shot - How Far The Mghty Have Fallen!

    An examination of the all-time list for the women’s shot put reveals the following (this is from a list maintained by Peter Larsson with 531 entries going down to 20.75m/68’-3/4” and excludes indoor marks and 2nd/3rd etc. best marks from the same series):

    The women’s world record at the present time is 22.63m/74’7-3/4” by Natalya Lisovskaya (RUS) set in 1987 (21 years ago). The American record is 20.18m/66’2.5” by Ramona Pagel set in 1988.
    There have been only 10 additions to the top 337 on the list since 1990.
    You have to go down the list to #331 to find a mark from 2008 (21.98m/68’9.5”).
    Only one other 2008 put (20.90m/68’6”) even makes the top 531 at #397.
    There are only 4 throws since 1990 which rank in the top 240 of all time.
    There have been only 25 marks since 1990 which rank in the top 531 of all time, and 9 of those were by Chinese women throwing in China.
    Except for Germany and 1 Cuban, there are no non-Asians in the top 531 marks of all time.
    The 2008 Olympics were won with a put of 20.56m {67’5.25”), a throw more than 6’ under the world record and which would rank somewhere around 800th to 900th on the all-time list.
    91% of the entries on the list are either from USSR, (including its satellites), Germany (including GDR) or Czechoslovakia. Of the remainder, most are from Bulgaria.

    My solution - Increase the weight of the shot 10g and start over!
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