Solinsky to try steeple

[Brian]

Apparently decided a gold medal is more important than beating your head against a brick wall in a "glamor" event.

www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_v ... ky-5th-ave


Are you listening, AW...? The 5,000m. beckons...


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Posted: 23 Jul 2008 14:01 Post subject:

Cyril wrote:
[ What trait would you be looking for (in Goucher or Webb) that would suggest they were SCs? I would think they would need to at least give it a shot in training for you to assess their ability.

Is there something about the way they run? Their frame?

I tend to agree that the steeple is quite a specialized talent and just because someone is a stellar middle disatance guy doesn't mean that they will also be a good steepler.

But, can you exclude these guys from the event without even knowing if they can run over barriers well? It would be a shame if someone like Goucher has some ability over barriers but never discovered it because he was discouraged from even giving it a try.


[Brian]
I posed this initial question because I've always believed someone with 5,000m. stamina and good Mile speed potentially might make an excellent steeplchaser. This type of athlete might have an advantage as far as just how much energy each barrier takes to clear throughout the race: all other factors equal, someone who on a 1-10 scale of effort can maintain speed at 4 or 5 will certainly have an advantage over someone who needs a 6-7--either a faster pace throughout or more reserves left at the end. No, hurdling isn't a key requirement--the aforementioned stamina and sustained speed is--but having any hurdling experience certinly helps (my point regarding Goucher).

I knew a collegiate runner who used to run the IM race in smaller meets (among another race that day) so he could improve his 400 speed and his hurdling technique. He got down to the low 8:30's in the steeple; I always thought the Bowerman types would have given him an appreciative head nod.

Many other coaches believe the same about the necessary stamina/sustained speed. Dellinger, for just one, used to differentiate between 800/1500 guys and 1500/5,000 guys regarding their optimum racing range and would train these groups accordingly different. Steeplers would be included in the 1500/5,000 group, plus specialty technique work over barriers.

1500=(sustained) speed.
5,000=stamina.

Both=potentially good steeplechaser.

To me, both Goucher and Webb *could* fit this potential profile.

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Add Chris S.

Go, dude!

[AthleticsInBritain]

I wouldn't say winning a medal in the 'chase would be any easier than the 5k. In fact, it's probably harder.

[malmo]

“Track down a medal?” Talk about delusional. Running is done on the track not from the mouth.

Lets' put this Solinsky fantasy in perspective. He ran a 2200 meter time trial at "8:40 pace" - Mark from Flotrack said "8:44" but lets give him the 8:40 anyway. He said he was "definitely feeling that wall," which means it was a serious effort.

5:46.7 (2000m) is 8:40.0 pace. 5:49.3 is 8:44.0 pace.

This is real day-to-day blue-collar training, not "hitting the wall" in a time trial, and completely void of "tracking down a medal" hubris. From my own training logs (1980).

6/2 M - 3 miles easy, 2000SC 5:47 (8:40 pace), 800 jog, 6x400(62) w/200 jog, 3.5 miles easy
6/4 W - 3 miles easy, 2000SC 5:42 (8:33 pace), 800 jog, 6x200(29) w/30sec rest, 6.5 miles easy
6/6 F - 3000SC in 8:36.0
6/9 M - 3 miles easy, 2000SC 5:40 (8:30 pace), 800 jog, 8x400(60-63)w/200 jog, 3.5 miles easy
6/11 W - 3 miles easy, 2000SC 5:40, 800 jog, 4X 300-200 (44, 27.5), 3.5 miles easy
6/19 Th - 3 miles easy, 2000SC 5:40, 800 jog, 1000SC (2:45), 800 jog, 8x30/30, 4 miles easy
6/25 W - 3000SC in 8:32.8

Judging by what we know of at this point I'd put Solinsky square in the Bethke/Virgin category when it comes to steeple talent, a far cry from medal potential.

If medals were awarded based on talk, Solinsky already has the gold locked up.

[DrJay]

In the early 1990s, God issued a decree, that all OG and WC 3000m steeple medals will go to Kenyans. Now, God's getting on in years and has a tendency to nod off at times, sometimes during a championship steeplechase. So occasionally some lucky guy not from Kenya sneaks in for a silver or bronze. Boy does that piss God off. So the next go round, he gets all wired up with a bunch of java so he stays awake, and the normal equilibrium of the steeple returns, the Kenyans sweep again, and all is good.

[joeltetreault]

Re: Solinsky to try steeple

Given how the steeplechase was comparatively weak this year depth-wise (tenth best time was 8:12 by Tahri), if the event stays that way he could have a shot at sneaking in if he can develop into a sub8:10 type. The second place finisher at Beijing "only" has a best of 8:08.95, which he ran at Zurich, a week after the Olympics.

He doesn't say how much work he did for the 2200 steeplechase time trial. If he hasn't done any hurdle work and just kind of jumped in and did it, that would change extrapolations. I think it's a little early to start passing judgment.

Also I think people are reading into his statements a bit, he's just going to try out the steeple the next two years while still running 5000s. If the transition goes well he will switch fulltime to the steeple in 2011 and 2012 for the championships those years. He said "..and see if I can't track down a medal" which isn't delusional, more positive thinking with the way he said it.

[Marlow]

Boy does that piss God off. So the next go round, he gets all wired up with a bunch of java so he stays awake, and the normal equilibrium of the steeple returns, the Kenyans sweep again, and all is good.

That's just what I always suspected, so thanks for confirming that!

[26mi235]

Re: Solinsky to try steeple

Given how the steeplechase was comparatively weak this year depth-wise (tenth best time was 8:12 by Tahri), if the event stays that way he could have a shot at sneaking in if he can develop into a sub8:10 type. The second place finisher at Beijing "only" has a best of 8:08.95, which he ran at Zurich, a week after the Olympics.

He doesn't say how much work he did for the 2200 steeplechase time trial. If he hasn't done any hurdle work and just kind of jumped in and did it, that would change extrapolations. I think it's a little early to start passing judgment.

Also I think people are reading into his statements a bit, he's just going to try out the steeple the next two years while still running 5000s. If the transition goes well he will switch fulltime to the steeple in 2011 and 2012 for the championships those years. He said "..and see if I can't track down a medal" which isn't delusional, more positive thinking with the way he said it.

He has said that he has been dabbling for several (four?) years and would have tried it this year to hedge his bets but did not want to risk the event-related injuries. This puts him into a class where malmo's critic seems to apply.

As for the OGs, look at the steeple list in a WC/OG context - take only the top 3 or 4 Kenyans in your list and marks like 8:12 and 8:15 become even more competitive.

[George P.]

Dan Lincoln did OK. Where's Dan?

Otherwise, I trust Malmo's judgment on this thing (as with most things).

[ponytayne]

Dan Lincoln is in medical school...and is injured.

solinsky may develop into an 8:10 type, but that doesn't happen quickly...even if he is supremely talented.

[DrJay]

Just because the top end of the steeple list is less deep than is some past years doesn't mean it's a cakewalk to the podium, or even a top five or six finish. Famiglietti has a lot of experience in the event, 3:35.8/27:37 credentials, and got smoked in Beijing, 13th place in 8:31.

[Cyril]

“
Judging by what we know of at this point I'd put Solinsky square in the Bethke/Virgin category when it comes to steeple talent, a far cry from medal potential.

There's nothing wrong with Solinsky giving the SC a shot. However, as Malmo stated, there really isn't any indication, other than he is a very solid 15/5 guy, that he would be able to run a great steeple. But what the hell, he mine as well give it a try.

Also, I've been away for awhile, so I don't know if this has been discussed, but Bethke is now at Arizona. The WI coaching change, and opportunity to get with some real SC guys inspired the move. He is still focused on running over the barriers.

[KevinM]

Bethke is at Arizona State.

[Cyril]

Bethke is at Arizona State.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, ASU...from what I hear he wants to train with Alcorn.

[malmo]

Re: Solinsky to try steeple

He doesn't say how much work he did for the 2200 steeplechase time trial. If he hasn't done any hurdle work and just kind of jumped in and did it, that would change extrapolations. I think it's a little early to start passing judgment.
.

No it's not. Running is done on the track, not with the mouth. My opinion on both Schumacher and Solinsky has been downgraded faster than you can say "Lehman Brothers."

[malmo]

Just because the top end of the steeple list is less deep than is some past years doesn't mean it's a cakewalk to the podium, or even a top five or six finish. Famiglietti has a lot of experience in the event, 3:35.8/27:37 credentials, and got smoked in Beijing, 13th place in 8:31.

3:35, 13:11, 27:37. With 11 years of experience in the steeplechase (8 of them at the same level), I think that he is also trying to force himself into the wrong event.