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  • #31
    Re: Steeplechase ability

    Originally posted by PDJ551
    Anyone who has worked with hurdlers knows that this characteristic is a nobrainer. I would guess that a distance runner who has that smoothness in his or her stride would be a fine candidate for the event. Does Solinsky have that smoothness in his pull through?
    The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. There is no other event in track and field like it. You can't practice that - you either have it or you don't.

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    • #32
      Re: Steeplechase ability

      Originally posted by malmo
      Originally posted by PDJ551
      Anyone who has worked with hurdlers knows that this characteristic is a nobrainer. I would guess that a distance runner who has that smoothness in his or her stride would be a fine candidate for the event. Does Solinsky have that smoothness in his pull through?
      The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. There is no other event in track and field like it. You can't practice that - you either have it or you don't.
      I have thought of it as more like running in some crowded XC events, particularly ones with hay bales and other impediments.

      On the Solinsky side, he has had a number of 'falling' incidents; sometimes those ahead of him that he has had to hurdle or that have taken him out (I think he has also gone down once or twice in XC). It makes me think that he does not have the natural spatial skills and balance to make him a natural candidate. I think that we have a a clue when he runs his first one and should know by Number 3.

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      • #33
        Re: Steeplechase ability

        Originally posted by malmo
        Originally posted by PDJ551
        Anyone who has worked with hurdlers knows that this characteristic is a nobrainer. I would guess that a distance runner who has that smoothness in his or her stride would be a fine candidate for the event. Does Solinsky have that smoothness in his pull through?
        The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. There is no other event in track and field like it. You can't practice that - you either have it or you don't.
        malmo --
        Thank you for posting this explanation of the dynamics of this event. Great summary of the challenge of the steeplechase.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Steeplechase ability

          Originally posted by 26mi235

          I have thought of it as more like running in some crowded XC events, particularly ones with hay bales and other impediments.

          On the Solinsky side, he has had a number of 'falling' incidents; sometimes those ahead of him that he has had to hurdle or that have taken him out (I think he has also gone down once or twice in XC). It makes me think that he does not have the natural spatial skills and balance to make him a natural candidate. I think that we have a a clue when he runs his first one and should know by Number 3.
          I wouldn't read too much into falling down in a race. Random walk comes to play her: you are either unlucky that your footstrike just happened to fall in the wrong place on a slippery surface, or you are fortunate that you missed the slippery spot.

          Randomness does hand in life.
          http://www.amazon.com/Drunkards-Walk-Ra ... 23&sr=1-10

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          • #35
            Going over the barriers in the steeple

            I never meant to imply that the steeplechase is a hurdle race. I was talking about the flexibility that a hurdler needs. I have seen many strong and powerful distance runners who lack the looseness in the hips that one needs to efficiently get over any barrier in a race. As a high school coach you often discover potential hurdlers by just having new kids go over a low hurdle with a minimum of direction. Of course they will not later succeed if they lack sprint speed. Some distance runners are very smooth. We don't have the steeplechase in our state for high school runners. But at the end of the season over the years some of my distance runners with a minimum of preparation competed successfully in that event in some open meets. I could predict success by watching them just go over a couple of hurdles days before in practice. Of course the waterjump has nothing to do with hurdllng. You would be surprised of how many good runners cannot properly put their trail leg over a hurdle. This is something that cannot be taught to some runners.

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            • #36
              Re: Going over the barriers in the steeple

              Originally posted by PDJ551
              I never meant to imply that the steeplechase is a hurdle race. I was talking about the flexibility that a hurdler needs. I have seen many strong and powerful distance runners who lack the looseness in the hips that one needs to efficiently get over any barrier in a race. As a high school coach you often discover potential hurdlers by just having new kids go over a low hurdle with a minimum of direction. Of course they will not later succeed if they lack sprint speed. Some distance runners are very smooth. We don't have the steeplechase in our state for high school runners. But at the end of the season over the years some of my distance runners with a minimum of preparation competed successfully in that event in some open meets. I could predict success by watching them just go over a couple of hurdles days before in practice. Of course the waterjump has nothing to do with hurdllng. You would be surprised of how many good runners cannot properly put their trail leg over a hurdle. This is something that cannot be taught to some runners.
              Many Olympic/World medallists in the Steeplechase don't "properly put their trail leg over a hurdle". I agree with Master Po's recent post that praised malmo's summary of the dynamics of the event. You would almost believe that he had tried the event at some point.

              Comment


              • #37
                It is possible I misread some of the above posts, but it is not a pure talent event. There is certainly some talent to jumping a barrier, however it is practiced to make better by every steeple runner I ever knew.
                In the sun with a popsicle, everthing is possible

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                • #38
                  I know some fellow steeplers who also run in the 400m hurdles in order to "practice" for the steeple itself. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard- the 400mH in my opinion doesn't prepare you at all for clearing barriers.

                  malmo- would you agree with my take or would the 400mH help?
                  "Long may you run"- Neil Young

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mellow Johnny
                    I know some fellow steeplers who also run in the 400m hurdles in order to "practice" for the steeple itself. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard- the 400mH in my opinion doesn't prepare you at all for clearing barriers.
                    Agree. The steeplechase is further away from the 400IH than the 400 is to the 3000.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Run DMC
                      It is possible I misread some of the above posts, but it is not a pure talent event. There is certainly some talent to jumping a barrier, however it is practiced to make better by every steeple runner I ever knew.
                      I've known 8:00 Kenyans who did zero hurdle work.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by malmo
                        Originally posted by Mellow Johnny
                        I know some fellow steeplers who also run in the 400m hurdles in order to "practice" for the steeple itself. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard- the 400mH in my opinion doesn't prepare you at all for clearing barriers.
                        Agree. The steeplechase is further away from the 400IH than the 400 is to the 3000.
                        That's all I needed to hear. Thanks.
                        "Long may you run"- Neil Young

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