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  • Mellow Johnny
    replied
    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by Mellow Johnny
    I know some fellow steeplers who also run in the 400m hurdles in order to "practice" for the steeple itself. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard- the 400mH in my opinion doesn't prepare you at all for clearing barriers.
    Agree. The steeplechase is further away from the 400IH than the 400 is to the 3000.
    That's all I needed to hear. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barto
    replied
    Originally posted by Run DMC
    It is possible I misread some of the above posts, but it is not a pure talent event. There is certainly some talent to jumping a barrier, however it is practiced to make better by every steeple runner I ever knew.
    I've known 8:00 Kenyans who did zero hurdle work.

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Originally posted by Mellow Johnny
    I know some fellow steeplers who also run in the 400m hurdles in order to "practice" for the steeple itself. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard- the 400mH in my opinion doesn't prepare you at all for clearing barriers.
    Agree. The steeplechase is further away from the 400IH than the 400 is to the 3000.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mellow Johnny
    replied
    I know some fellow steeplers who also run in the 400m hurdles in order to "practice" for the steeple itself. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard- the 400mH in my opinion doesn't prepare you at all for clearing barriers.

    malmo- would you agree with my take or would the 400mH help?

    Leave a comment:


  • Run DMC
    replied
    It is possible I misread some of the above posts, but it is not a pure talent event. There is certainly some talent to jumping a barrier, however it is practiced to make better by every steeple runner I ever knew.

    Leave a comment:


  • rasb
    replied
    Re: Going over the barriers in the steeple

    Originally posted by PDJ551
    I never meant to imply that the steeplechase is a hurdle race. I was talking about the flexibility that a hurdler needs. I have seen many strong and powerful distance runners who lack the looseness in the hips that one needs to efficiently get over any barrier in a race. As a high school coach you often discover potential hurdlers by just having new kids go over a low hurdle with a minimum of direction. Of course they will not later succeed if they lack sprint speed. Some distance runners are very smooth. We don't have the steeplechase in our state for high school runners. But at the end of the season over the years some of my distance runners with a minimum of preparation competed successfully in that event in some open meets. I could predict success by watching them just go over a couple of hurdles days before in practice. Of course the waterjump has nothing to do with hurdllng. You would be surprised of how many good runners cannot properly put their trail leg over a hurdle. This is something that cannot be taught to some runners.
    Many Olympic/World medallists in the Steeplechase don't "properly put their trail leg over a hurdle". I agree with Master Po's recent post that praised malmo's summary of the dynamics of the event. You would almost believe that he had tried the event at some point.

    Leave a comment:


  • PDJ551
    replied
    Going over the barriers in the steeple

    I never meant to imply that the steeplechase is a hurdle race. I was talking about the flexibility that a hurdler needs. I have seen many strong and powerful distance runners who lack the looseness in the hips that one needs to efficiently get over any barrier in a race. As a high school coach you often discover potential hurdlers by just having new kids go over a low hurdle with a minimum of direction. Of course they will not later succeed if they lack sprint speed. Some distance runners are very smooth. We don't have the steeplechase in our state for high school runners. But at the end of the season over the years some of my distance runners with a minimum of preparation competed successfully in that event in some open meets. I could predict success by watching them just go over a couple of hurdles days before in practice. Of course the waterjump has nothing to do with hurdllng. You would be surprised of how many good runners cannot properly put their trail leg over a hurdle. This is something that cannot be taught to some runners.

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Re: Steeplechase ability

    Originally posted by 26mi235

    I have thought of it as more like running in some crowded XC events, particularly ones with hay bales and other impediments.

    On the Solinsky side, he has had a number of 'falling' incidents; sometimes those ahead of him that he has had to hurdle or that have taken him out (I think he has also gone down once or twice in XC). It makes me think that he does not have the natural spatial skills and balance to make him a natural candidate. I think that we have a a clue when he runs his first one and should know by Number 3.
    I wouldn't read too much into falling down in a race. Random walk comes to play her: you are either unlucky that your footstrike just happened to fall in the wrong place on a slippery surface, or you are fortunate that you missed the slippery spot.

    Randomness does hand in life.
    http://www.amazon.com/Drunkards-Walk-Ra ... 23&sr=1-10

    Leave a comment:


  • Master Po
    replied
    Re: Steeplechase ability

    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by PDJ551
    Anyone who has worked with hurdlers knows that this characteristic is a nobrainer. I would guess that a distance runner who has that smoothness in his or her stride would be a fine candidate for the event. Does Solinsky have that smoothness in his pull through?
    The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. There is no other event in track and field like it. You can't practice that - you either have it or you don't.
    malmo --
    Thank you for posting this explanation of the dynamics of this event. Great summary of the challenge of the steeplechase.

    Leave a comment:


  • 26mi235
    replied
    Re: Steeplechase ability

    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by PDJ551
    Anyone who has worked with hurdlers knows that this characteristic is a nobrainer. I would guess that a distance runner who has that smoothness in his or her stride would be a fine candidate for the event. Does Solinsky have that smoothness in his pull through?
    The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. There is no other event in track and field like it. You can't practice that - you either have it or you don't.
    I have thought of it as more like running in some crowded XC events, particularly ones with hay bales and other impediments.

    On the Solinsky side, he has had a number of 'falling' incidents; sometimes those ahead of him that he has had to hurdle or that have taken him out (I think he has also gone down once or twice in XC). It makes me think that he does not have the natural spatial skills and balance to make him a natural candidate. I think that we have a a clue when he runs his first one and should know by Number 3.

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Re: Steeplechase ability

    Originally posted by PDJ551
    Anyone who has worked with hurdlers knows that this characteristic is a nobrainer. I would guess that a distance runner who has that smoothness in his or her stride would be a fine candidate for the event. Does Solinsky have that smoothness in his pull through?
    The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. There is no other event in track and field like it. You can't practice that - you either have it or you don't.

    Leave a comment:


  • joeltetreault
    replied
    Originally posted by Mellow Johnny
    Solinsky is going to need to show it on the track before I'm convinced he'll make a good steepler.
    Based on his comments in the interview, I think Solinsky has the exact same thought process. He'll see how it goes in '09 and '10 before committing to it full time, or sticking to the 5000m.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mellow Johnny
    replied
    Solinsky is going to need to show it on the track before I'm convinced he'll make a good steepler. Right now at 8:40 he's a far cry from Dan Lincoln's AR and has a long long way to go since he'll have to be able to run at least that fast in order to "track down a medal." And even with that time as a PR, Lincoln hasn't come close to the podium. in the WC or OG,

    As far as Fam goes, ran a really unwise semifinal in Beijing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Run DMC
    replied
    Originally posted by DrJay
    Just because the top end of the steeple list is less deep than is some past years doesn't mean it's a cakewalk to the podium, or even a top five or six finish. Famiglietti has a lot of experience in the event, 3:35.8/27:37 credentials, and got smoked in Beijing, 13th place in 8:31.
    He took the lead with 3 laps to go and pushed the pace, then exploded. I wonder why? Any thoughts? Did he just realize he would not place and give up, or did he just die?

    I think he could choose any event (5k, 10k, Steeple) and the result internationally would be similar. His times are good, but not really up there with the best in the world. You need approximately sub 13:00 5k, sub 8:10 steeple, sub 27:10 (maybe even sub 27) to really be internationally competitive - in the medal hunt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian
    replied
    Re: Steeplechase ability

    Originally posted by PDJ551
    I would guess that a distance runner who has that smoothness in his or her stride would be a fine candidate for the event. Does Solinsky have that smoothness in his pull through?

    Or with serious commitment to preparation, can he (and/or others) learn it?


    That's the fun part of watching this sport!

    Leave a comment:

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