so who's No. 1 in the marathon?

[Brian]

Man, the weeks that have gone by since this thread began certainly haven't brought any clarity to my mind on who wins.

The only good thing, I've realized, is that no matter which way it goes, it's easy to vote for Geb over Wanjiru in the AOY ordering because he'll have a decent 10K ranking as well.

Actually, wasn't it determined on this board nearly one year ago that Ryan Hall's OT win instantly made him one of the 10 greatest performers of the year...?

So geez, gh, why are you complaining? Tap the wisdom of the time and you can name Hall #1 based on sheer potential. Then you've only got 9 more to figure out--!

[Tongue firmly in cheek.]

:]

[gh]

Man, the weeks that have gone by since this thread began certainly haven't brought any clarity to my mind on who wins.

The only good thing, I've realized, is that no matter which way it goes, it's easy to vote for Geb over Wanjiru in the AOY ordering because he'll have a decent 10K ranking as well.

[Brian]

Re: so who's No. 1 in the marathon?

WR vs. Olympic title

Another way of looking at the performances: as far as a spectator, one could walk away from the Geb races and merely check back periodically to see if he was still on pace (then catch the historic finish!).

In contrast, I doubt very few fans could risk leaving their television area during the ultra-competitive OG race.

[gh]

As an aside: We should possibly let the discussion rest until the season is
over. If both Geb and Wanjiru have a third race planned, the results of those
races can overturn anything we conclude here and now.

Fat chance!

Yeah, partic. now that Geb has announced he's doing Dubai in January.

[eldrick]

sammy ran og virtually as the wabbit, geb had pacers to 30k & if he tucked behind them properly got at least 1'00 drafting advantage

if sammy had the same, that gets him down to mid-2"05

you have to then decide if the general course conditions ( not a speedway like berlin i'd presume ?) & heat/humidity were worth at least 1"30

the answer to sammy's current ability may rely on this ( note bedford said london was nearly 90s quicker with flatter, straighter, smoother route than before )

( also note that although gharib finished only 44s behind, he hardly ever led & drafted of sammy & the ethiopian to most extent, meaning he may have got close to 1'00 advantage from this )

my gut tells me that sammy with this run & 1/2M wr is capable of low-2"03 currently in berlin

[pickle47]

Honors Won-OG vs. what amounts to two GP-style time trials. Big advantage to Wanjiru.

Won-Loss Record-two first vs. a first and a second, the second being avenged.

Sequence of Marks-a tie in the varied world of marathoning.

As noted before, if you want to skip the Olympics for your own reaons, fine. But you've taken yourself out of the game to a degree.

It's Wanjiru.

[George P.]

As an aside: We should possibly let the discussion rest until the season is
over. If both Geb and Wanjiru have a third race planned, the results of those
races can overturn anything we conclude here and now.

Fat chance!

[gh]

Wanjiru pulled out of the World Half-Marathon citing fatigue; Geb is slated to run a 15K Down Under (see story on front page where Aussie writer says he'd take Wanjiru as No. 1). Would seem unlikely to me there's a further marathon in either of their plans.

[imaginative]

However, Wanjiru's other races and performances were strong enough to give him the nod over Geb and the WR. As long as someone has an impressive season summary and the Olympic title, you can make a strong case for him, even if someone else set a new WR.

If we look only at the Marathon (which by thread title, we should), I am only
aware of two races for both runners. Geb won both his races; Wanjiru won one,
and was only second in the other---in fact, he was closer to the third place
than to second. In my eyes, this is a very strong argument against him.

Had Wanjiru been undefeated, or Geb lost a race, or Wanjiru running four
Marathons and only losing one, then we would have a different situation.

As an aside: We should possibly let the discussion rest until the season is
over. If both Geb and Wanjiru have a third race planned, the results of those
races can overturn anything we conclude here and now.

[Master Po]

This has, so far (with 3 historically fast marathons still to go -- Chicago, Amsterdam, Fukuoka), been one of the greatest years ever for men's marathon running. Just consider the four marathons that have been the focus of the discussion in this thread -- Dubai, London, Beijing, Berlin -- and the many great performances they produced. Left aside are Kipsang's 2:05:49 CR in Rotterdam, and one of the Ethiopian guy's 2:06:40ish win in Paris.

In addition to the WR, OG record, we have more depth:

#10 time so far this year is 2:06:32 (Wanjiru)
#20 time so far this year is 2:07:32 (S. Korir, Seoul)

Already, 46 sub-2:09. (As for the source of those 46: 29 Kenya, 7 Ethiopia, 3 Japan, 2 Eritrea, 2 Morocco, 1 Switzerland, 1 USA, 1 Qatar-former Kenyan.)

To compare the depth, through this decade:

2000
#10 2:07:47; #20 2:08:34; 31 sub-2:09
2001
#10 2:07:48; #20 2:08:52; 23 sub-2:09
2002
#10 2:06:49; #20 2:08:08; 37 sub-2:09
2003
#10 2:06:48; #20 2:07:53; 56 sub-2:09
2004
#10 2:07:42; #20 2:08:35; 34 sub-2:09
2005
#10 2:07:46; #20 2:08:29; 31 sub-2:09
2006
#10 2:07:04; #20 2:07:58; 43 sub-2:09
2007
#10 2:07:19; #20 2:07:57; 46 sub-2:09

[croflash]

Why should this be different than other events ? Olympic Gold is what matters this year and you can't punish Wanjiru for not having that duel in Beijing. I think he should be No. 1 since his showings outside of Beijing have been pretty strong too.

Nobody is suggesting "punishing" Wanjiru. Being ranked number 2 in the marathon for the year (if that's what happens) is hardly punishment.

What you're suggesting, by implication, is that we should "punish" Geb for not competing in Beijing, even though he had perfectly good reasons for not doing so. You're furthermore implying that the winner in each event at the Games should be the annual number 1 -- more or less no matter what! That would be a bridge too far, to say the least. Heck, we could just dispense with the annual rankings during Olympic years, right?

The Olympics is what matters the most by far, I didn't say it is all that matters. However, Wanjiru's other races and performances were strong enough to give him the nod over Geb and the WR. As long as someone has an impressive season summary and the Olympic title, you can make a strong case for him, even if someone else set a new WR.

[Brian]

Re: so who's No. 1 in the marathon?

WR vs. Olympic title

No contest.

Competitive Olympic Games win over tough field in record time vs. fast time-trial(s).

No contest!

...with PACERS!

[Brian]

Re: so who's No. 1 in the marathon?

WR vs. Olympic title

No contest.

Competitive Olympic Games win over tough field in record time vs. fast time-trial(s).

No contest!

[joeltetreault]

Historical question: I feel that this scenario (the WR-holder vs. OG champ, both never competed against each other) must have happened before in other events. If so, what were the resulting TFN rankings?

[SQUACKEE]

Wanjiru's performance in Beijing was better than Geb's 2:03:59, IMHO.

If it is its very very close.