Question Regarding DQ Rules for the Start (Sprint)

[rabalac]

I am very confused regarding the starting rules for DQ for track, particularly the sprints. I watched the Beijing women's 100M final several times, and each time I am perplexed as to why Tori Edwards from the USA was not DQ'd. The video clearly showed that she moved before the gun went off.

Now I was thinking that perhaps her upper body (like her head) could have moved (flinched) while her feet remained firmly on the blocks. If that were the case, then nothing would have registered on the blocks and the starting system. But is that all that is required? I was under the impression that an athlete is not allowed to move ANY PART of the body while in the "Set" position.

If an athlete is allowed to move their head while their feet remain firmly on the blocks, then what's to stop an athlete from INTENTIONALLY bobbing his/her head for the sole purpose of getting an opponent to jump start and be DQ'd? We all know this tactic/strategy is done routinely.

Supposed Tori Edwards had gone on to win the 100m possibly in a WR time, while the video showed she clearly moved, could she then be DQ'd after the fact like they do in swimming? In swimming, if a swimmer false starts, s/he is allowed to swim the race but then is told about his/her DQ at the END of the race. T&F DQs a runner BEFORE the race gets underway.

So In Summary, are you allowed to move any body part while in the "set" position, or is it just your feet on the blocks that matters?

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

[26mi235]

A quick impression is that the starter should have called a no-start or a FS at the beginning of the race. I think that it was the first FS and would not have resulted in a DQ. It worked to the detriment of TE and probably those right next to her. I was not impressed by some of the starters in key meets this year.

[Smoke]

- the rule is if you move before the gun it is a false start
- TE would not have been dq'd but the race should have been called back
- the flinch was death for TE, cost her the race and Muna
- until starters are regulated and trained we will see these issues come up
- the starter should have seen the flinch, instead too much reliance on the system with everyone listening for the tone.
- sensors are set to the foot pads, so if for some reason the pads do not move the tone will not sound.

[rabalac]

- the rule is if you move before the gun it is a false start
- TE would not have been dq'd but the race should have been called back
- the flinch was death for TE, cost her the race and Muna
- until starters are regulated and trained we will see these issues come up
- the starter should have seen the flinch, instead too much reliance on the system with everyone listening for the tone.
- sensors are set to the foot pads, so if for some reason the pads do not move the tone will not sound.

Actually, what I meant to say was the race should have been called back rather than a DQ. So if any movement is considered a false start, do they have judges for each lane (like they do in swimming) particularly in the curved events (200, 400) where the runners do not line up in a straight line? I can't imagine how the starter could see the runner in lane 1 and lane 8 at the same time especially in a 400.

Just wondering.

[Marlow]

- the starter should have seen the flinch, instead too much reliance on the system with everyone listening for the tone.

We've had this discussion before, and I had also been under the impression that the starter should be something move than a Pavlovian response (fire the recall gun if you hear a tone in your headset). The consensus is that the tone is the only way a starter will call back a race that has started.

[ndamix]

- the starter should have seen the flinch, instead too much reliance on the system with everyone listening for the tone.

The tone in the that emminants from the shifting of pressure from the block pads generally confirms what should have been seen by the starter and/or recall starters.

With the number of recall starters that were used @ Beijing, you would've thought someone would've seen TE flinching and simply tell the field to "STAND UP". No FS would have been charged... with the starter and/or recall starter "STANDING UP" the field, time would have been given to settle folks down and the race could've been started again.

[rabalac]

- the starter should have seen the flinch, instead too much reliance on the system with everyone listening for the tone.

The tone in the that emminants from the shifting of pressure from the block pads generally confirms what should have been seen by the starter and/or recall starters.

With the number of recall starters that were used @ Beijing, you would've thought someone would've seen TE flinching and simply tell the field to "STAND UP". No FS would have been charged... with the starter and/or recall starter "STANDING UP" the field, time would have been given to settle folks down and the race could've been started again.

Since there is also a visual aspect to the start, in the case of the 400M where the line of sight between lane 1 and lane 8 is quite wide, does anyone know how many recall starter(s) are generally used?

[ndamix]

- the starter should have seen the flinch, instead too much reliance on the system with everyone listening for the tone.

The tone in the that emminants from the shifting of pressure from the block pads generally confirms what should have been seen by the starter and/or recall starters.

With the number of recall starters that were used @ Beijing, you would've thought someone would've seen TE flinching and simply tell the field to "STAND UP". No FS would have been charged... with the starter and/or recall starter "STANDING UP" the field, time would have been given to settle folks down and the race could've been started again.

Since there is also a visual aspect to the start, in the case of the 400M where the line of sight between lane 1 and lane 8 is quite wide, does anyone know how many recall starter(s) are generally used?

You can get by with a little as two (one handles Lanes 1 -4, the other Lanes 5 - 8/9) in addition to the starter. IMO, anymore than three (2 per lane) generally is overkill.

[26mi235]

How about in the 4x400, where it is a 3-turn stagger?

[Smoke]

i think mimicking the swimming is an excellent idea at major champs. One recall starter for each lane. That is brilliant. With the randomness of starters (no matter how good) it is a nice compromise, especially with more and more responsibility being placed on the athletes. Nice.

[26mi235]

I swimming do they DQ the swimmer? I think that might only be n the relays when they leave early. At least, it is not verboten to be moving at the start, IIRC.

[rabalac]

I swimming do they DQ the swimmer? I think that might only be n the relays when they leave early. At least, it is not verboten to be moving at the start, IIRC.

In swimming all lanes have a judge. If a swimmer leaves the starting "block" (which has no motion sensor like T&F) too early, s/he is allowed to swim the race but is DQ'd at the end of the race. In a relay, if someone jump off too early, same thing, they finish the race and is greeted with a DQ at the end. There really is no mechanism to re-call a race is swimming.

[lonewolf]

[
There really is no mechanism to re-call a race is swimming.

Not to quibble but when my grandaughter was swimming in age group and HS, races were re-called with a verrrry loud airhorn.

[sprintblox]

[
There really is no mechanism to re-call a race is swimming.

Not to quibble but when my grandaughter was swimming in age group and HS, races were re-called with a verrrry loud airhorn.

How long ago was that? I know they used to do recalls years ago when the DQ was for the swimmer's 2nd false start, but I haven't seen that since they started giving a DQ for one false start.

[Marlow]

[
There really is no mechanism to re-call a race is swimming.

Not to quibble but when my grandaughter was swimming in age group and HS, races were re-called with a verrrry loud airhorn.

How long ago was that? I know they used to do recalls years ago when the DQ was for the swimmer's 2nd false start, but I haven't seen that since they started giving a DQ for one false start.

I go to swim meets occasionally and there is a very loud klaxon that sounds for a restart or FS.