Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

how about first 3 don't go from the Olympic Trials?

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by sprintblox
    It's actually a good point about the preselected ones pretending to be lame or otherwise giving an obviously half-assed effort.

    That could be mitigated with some sort of objective requirement to perform at a certain level -- preferably a level that takes some nontrivial effort, but doesn't heavily risk injury or force them to peak at the OT. For example, give the preselected ones a bye into the final, and to be on the team they only have to place 7th.
    That really will go over well. The Hero only needs to finish 7th!


    Again, I predict USATF and Nike are not going to let WChamps get any kind of automatic bye. The Trials are too much of a cash cow. And if the third place goes to some committee, well after Gouchergate, I wouldn't place too much objectivity in that.

    Comment


    • #77
      isn't london 2 weeks earlier than beijing begginning july 27th?? so presuming the usa trials i over the 4th of july period, end of june into july, we bascially have a 4-5 week period next olympics....

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Conor Dary
        ....
        Again, I predict USATF and Nike are not going to let WChamps get any kind of automatic bye. The Trials are too much of a cash cow. And if the third place goes to some committee, well after Gouchergate, I wouldn't place too much objectivity in that.
        TV (and maybe the USOC?) would also weigh in with strongly negative votes methinks. Remember how successful the U.S. was in Osaka in '07.... so let's say that we apply the simple rule that all reigning world champions get a free pass onto the Olympic team (so long as they showed "fitness"). That means that Eugene would not have had:

        Tyson Gay (twice)
        Jeremy Wariner
        Bernard Lagat (twice)
        Kerron Clement
        Brad Walker
        Reese Hoffa
        Allyson Felix
        Michelle Perry (weak link as it turned out)

        Those names/faces familiar to you? If I'm trying to sell the meet in any fashion and you tell me that I'm starting with the handicap of none of those being part of the show, I'm second-guessing how much priority I'm going to give it.

        Comment


        • #79
          Michelle Perry is a good example of what can happen if champions get a pass to the team. If the team had been Perry plus the first two in the Trials, we would have lost Dawn Harper, who finished third in the Trials but won the gold in Beijing.

          Comment


          • #80
            strictly true, but seeing as lolo ran 12.4 in the semis, it can be quite justified in saying dawn won because of lolo's misfortune

            also, if perry had had another few weeks of recovery, who's to say she woudn't have won ?

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by gh
              That means that Eugene would not have had:

              Tyson Gay (twice)
              Jeremy Wariner
              Bernard Lagat (twice)
              Kerron Clement
              Brad Walker
              Reese Hoffa
              Allyson Felix
              Michelle Perry (weak link as it turned out)
              Facts not in evidence. At least half WOULD have shown up for a wide range of reasons, not the least of which is $$$$.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Marlow
                Originally posted by gh
                That means that Eugene would not have had:

                Tyson Gay (twice)
                Jeremy Wariner
                Bernard Lagat (twice)
                Kerron Clement
                Brad Walker
                Reese Hoffa
                Allyson Felix
                Michelle Perry (weak link as it turned out)
                Facts not in evidence. At least half WOULD have shown up for a wide range of reasons, not the least of which is $$$$.
                They may well have done what a number of 'guaranteed' Brits do, and turn up but run a different event - e.g. TBO ran the 200m, Baddeley the 800m etc - more for training, but does add a little interest, and makes those that might have got an easier ride work harder for their place

                Imagine (for example) if Felix / Clement had been guaranteed spots in the 200m/400mH and they turned up to run the flat 400m - would have added some spice that the schedule was otherwise too punishing to allow...

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by jjimbojames
                  Originally posted by Marlow
                  Originally posted by gh
                  That means that Eugene would not have had:

                  Tyson Gay (twice)
                  Jeremy Wariner
                  Bernard Lagat (twice)
                  Kerron Clement
                  Brad Walker
                  Reese Hoffa
                  Allyson Felix
                  Michelle Perry (weak link as it turned out)
                  Facts not in evidence. At least half WOULD have shown up for a wide range of reasons, not the least of which is $$$$.
                  They may well have done what a number of 'guaranteed' Brits do, and turn up but run a different event - e.g. TBO ran the 200m, Baddeley the 800m etc - more for training, but does add a little interest, and makes those that might have got an easier ride work harder for their place

                  Imagine (for example) if Felix / Clement had been guaranteed spots in the 200m/400mH and they turned up to run the flat 400m - would have added some spice that the schedule was otherwise too punishing to allow...
                  The analogy with the Brits, while interesting, isn't relevant. The UK trials are much shorter, with fewer rounds. Also the depth in Britain is pretty feeble, compared to the US.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Conor Dary
                    Originally posted by jjimbojames
                    They may well have done what a number of 'guaranteed' Brits do, and turn up but run a different event - e.g. TBO ran the 200m, Baddeley the 800m etc - more for training, but does add a little interest, and makes those that might have got an easier ride work harder for their place

                    Imagine (for example) if Felix / Clement had been guaranteed spots in the 200m/400mH and they turned up to run the flat 400m - would have added some spice that the schedule was otherwise too punishing to allow...
                    The analogy with the Brits, while interesting, isn't relevant. The UK trials are much shorter, with fewer rounds. Also the depth in Britain is pretty feeble, compared to the US.
                    Agreed depth and length, but we're still talking about getting major stars to compete - TV is TV. IF you give preselects but want the 'guaranteed' athletes to turn up, allowing them to enter a different event will at least ensure they are competing, whilst from their viewpoint, there is no pressure to do well, so less likely to feign injury etc - actually having greater depth makes it better for them than the Brits - TBO and Baddeley, e.g, would be expected to do well, because of the lack of great opposition - whilst ensuring other events gain more coverage as a 'big star' name has entered

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      there is a fundamental flaw in the bye scenario no one has ever given weight to. When we allow these great athletes to participate in any event you steal a spot from someone else. The trials are different, any lane can make it, it is the chance of a lifetime and you never know what will happen.
                      Either require them to run in their own race or do not offer the bye.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Smoke
                        there is a fundamental flaw in the bye scenario no one has ever given weight to. When we allow these great athletes to participate in any event you steal a spot from someone else. The trials are different, any lane can make it, it is the chance of a lifetime and you never know what will happen.
                        Either require them to run in their own race or do not offer the bye.
                        Flaw? I see that as a BONUS! Athletic competition is cut-throat by definition. Win or get beat. If you get beaten, that's not the the 'fault' of the the person who beat you; you just weren't as good. There is no 'stealing spots', there is earning and not earning spots. I don't 'care' if someone who can't even make the final can't make the team. They should have made the final.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by jjimbojames
                          They may well have done what a number of 'guaranteed' Brits do, and turn up but run a different event - e.g. TBO ran the 200m, Baddeley the 800m etc - more for training, but does add a little interest, and makes those that might have got an easier ride work harder for their place
                          That's basically what happens in the odd-numbered years in the USA, since the byes were introduced for World Champions. They run an event other than their specialty (like when JW did the 200), or they run their own event anyway.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Smoke
                            there is a fundamental flaw in the bye scenario no one has ever given weight to. When we allow these great athletes to participate in any event you steal a spot from someone else. The trials are different, any lane can make it, it is the chance of a lifetime and you never know what will happen.
                            Let me see ... one guy in his primary event can't beat another who is just running his secondary event for fun or experimentation, and that is "stealing" a spot? :roll:

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              what americans won in 2007 in osaka...

                              so, eugene next june, they do a different event...

                              take gay...1 and 2 winner in osaka...ah, usa could have 4 in those events easily, but gay would be top 3 in each also, presuming health...

                              hoffa a winner..agsin usa could get 4, what does he do..

                              kerron clement 400h winner, could do 400...again usa gets 4

                              michelle perry...

                              lagat at 1500 and 5000...what does he do..usa gets 4 in both

                              felix...well she has either the 1 or 4 to look at....again usa gets 4..

                              2007 winners could mess things up by coming top 3 in 2009 at eugene..

                              unless there's a special rule where a 4th placer gets to go???

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by az2004
                                unless there's a special rule where a 4th placer gets to go???
                                It's not a special rule. If the 2007 World Champion places in the top three in the 2009 US Nationals, the fourth gets to go to Berlin. If the World Champion is from the USA, then the USA is allowed four entries in that event (assuming the other three have met the qualifying standard). It's as simple as that.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X