NCAA Pre-Nationals

[Mellow Johnny]

So what did we learn from the Pre-National Meet?

Not a lot on the men's side as none of the top 5 teams in the country (correction: Oklahoma State ran in the open race which wasn't team scored) and only 2 of the top 10 were there. #6 Alabama took it as expected and #9 Michigan was 3rd in a bit of an upset to runner-up #16 Northern Arizona.

For the women, #1 Washington won as expected but no Oregon showdown with the Ducks not there. Big showing for #13 Villanova who took second ahead of #4 Minnesota and #9 Michigan State. #6 Stanford didn't appear to run all that well, either.

Don't know who was held out or injured.

Anyway, for a Pre-Nats meet, not exactly much of a preview of who will be in contention at Nationals with so many teams not there.

[fatman]

Princeton didn't run well? They won. What more do you want?

[Mellow Johnny]

Princeton didn't run well? They won. What more do you want?

A lot more!

My bad, I didn't look at the White Race assuming that the Blue Race was the top race on both sides. Didn't realize that FSU and Princeton ran in that race.

And, as a side note, Princeton actually got 2nd.

[fatman]

No, they won. Both FSU and Princeton scored the same (89, if I remember correctly), so it was a tie for first. And if we want to do a tie breaker, which is not how this meet was scored (the tie for first is the official result), Princeton had a better 6th man (by far).

[fatman]

Okay, maybe I spoke too soon. The official result does list them as tied. But in the meet summary posted on the ISU web site, it says FSU won on a tie breaker (they must have used the aggregate time which was better for FSU - what happens when you have a runner way out front).

[Mellow Johnny]

No, they won. Both FSU and Princeton scored the same (89, if I remember correctly), so it was a tie for first. And if we want to do a tie breaker, which is not how this meet was scored (the tie for first is the official result), Princeton had a better 6th man (by far).

From the Indiana State Athletic Site:

"No. 3 ranked Florida State and No. 5 Princeton battled for the team title throughout the race, but it was the Seminoles who came out on top based on a tie-breaker to take the team title"

But looking at results, looks like Princeton's 6th runner (a runner out of Catlin Gabel in Oregon btw) was well ahead off Princeton's 6th. Looks like the ISU SID needs to work on his or her press releases.

[richxx87]

Re: NCAA Pre-Nationals

... #6 Alabama took it as expected and #9 Michigan was 3rd in a bit of an upset to runner-up #16 Northern Arizona.

There were two races, Bama won the Blue Men's race, but Stanford won the White Men's race -- and beat Bama on time and man for man.

#23 UCLA men finished an impressive 5th place behind Stanford ...
(However, the UCLA FB team just beat the Tree in the final 10 seconds with one Bruin Long Jumper and one High Jumper both playing key roles.)

[dl]

The Stanford men seem to be progressing well under their new coach.

A bit disappointing (from a fan's perspective) to see Oklahoma State run their B team in the tough race, and then three of their top guys, including German Fernandez, in the Open race.

[DrJay]

Colorado's men are overrated, ranked 3rd in the nation in the latest poll.

[EPelle]

The Stanford men seem to be progressing well under their new coach.

A bit disappointing (from a fan's perspective) to see Oklahoma State run their B team in the tough race, and then three of their top guys, including German Fernandez, in the Open race.

Could have been more exciting to have a full squad, but Fernandez stated during the week the reasons for leaving them home:

http://www.okstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml ... ID=1604022

[huh?]

But looking at results, looks like Princeton's 6th runner (a runner out of Catlin Gabel in Oregon btw) was well ahead off Princeton's 6th.

Oh?

[sjm1368]

I believe the tie breaker they use is a comparison of each scoring runner. Meaning they take princeton's 1 vs FSU 1, 2v2, etc.

[KevinM]

I believe the tie breaker they use is a comparison of each scoring runner. Meaning they take princeton's 1 vs FSU 1, 2v2, etc.

Steve, you are correct that this is the tie-breaking procedure used by the NCAA; however, the NCAA rule book stipulates:

Ties in team scoring shall not be broken, except for advancement to the
championships finals.

Since ties aren't even broken at the NCAA Championships, I don't quite understand why this tie was broken at a regular-season meet.

[fatman]

Since ties aren't even broken at the NCAA Championships, I don't quite understand why this tie was broken at a regular-season meet.

The official results (as posted on the web site) list the two teams as tied. As would be correct according to the rule cited about not breaking ties except in the case of regional qualifying meets where advancement was at issue.

Maybe the tie breaker discussion was informal and only based on what would have happened and the tie breaker been applied. And then people in the SID's office or elsewhere ran with it. I don't know. But in any case, the official result is a tie for first.

[Bruce Kritzler]

I really hate that teams are "required" to run Pre-Nationals if the want to accumulate at-large points to qualify for Nationals. Would rather see teams rewarded for running great at Regionals (in 4 wks.) when it counts.