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College selections for HS runners like Hasay

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  • College selections for HS runners like Hasay

    Ok guys and gals in the little cottage industry we've kinda formed around Ms Jordan about three years ago.

    What do we think the criteria should be in selecting a college for someone like Ms Jordan?

    Will any college be as patient, selective and supporting of a long term career as her current HS coach?

    We've all seen quality HS runners fizzle or plateau more often than not after reaching college.

    These are all my opinions and admittedly not as informed or expert as most but here are two examples I've thought of.

    Michael Coe / Lompoc: I saw him at the Boston Indoor games three / four years ago run a 4:07 mile with a LAST half of 2:01. "Wow" I thought. "Not bad."
    He enrolled at Cal and hey, not as successful as his peer A.J. Acosta at Oregon and have Coe's times improve much since HS?.

    Ariana Lambie - Yeah I know, VERY successful at Stanford but I'm thinking she plateaued. Did her 1500 times improve THAT much after HS? I believe she entered at 4:20 and ran 4:15 as a Senior?

    And you know that three Cal Poly runners reached the Olympic Trials finals in their events? So there's a little bit of a running tradition / success in her home town too.

    Personally I think either stay home, Stanford or Oregon. All three would be good choices, all proven and consistent. (Except for that red shirt thing Lanna likes to do up at Oregon!)

    Thoughts anyone?

  • #2
    Given how completely unimportant running is relative to your life is as a whole, my advice would always be to get the best education you can, and have fun doing it.

    I'd recommend that anyone who can get into Stanford (or Harvard, or whatever) and have somebody pay you to do it immediately leap at the opportunity.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by gh
      I'd recommend that anyone who can get into Stanford (or Harvard, or whatever) and have somebody pay you to do it immediately leap at the opportunity.
      Had you not ill-advisedly qualified your advice with a college that has no relevance to her (nor does Yale, Princeton, or Columbia) life, you'd have been spot on!! Better for her to stay in warmer climes and an established fan base. I am, of course, a disinterested observer, just trying to look out for HER best interests! 8-)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by gh
        I'd recommend that anyone who can get into Stanford (or Harvard, or whatever) and have somebody pay you to do it immediately leap at the opportunity.
        As you know, Ivys do not do the we'll pay you to play thing. That narrows things down in that category.
        There are no strings on me

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        • #5
          Originally posted by guru
          Originally posted by gh
          I'd recommend that anyone who can get into Stanford (or Harvard, or whatever) and have somebody pay you to do it immediately leap at the opportunity.
          As you know, Ivys do not do the we'll pay you to play thing.
          Have you never sent an athlete to an Ivy? They pay handsomely and then just cook the books. We've sent many, and despite their families' wealth, they all got a more than generous 'need-based' scholarships. :wink:

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by gh
            Given how completely unimportant running is relative to your life is as a whole, my advice would always be to get the best education you can, and have fun doing it.

            I'd recommend that anyone who can get into Stanford (or Harvard, or whatever) and have somebody pay you to do it immediately leap at the opportunity.
            Absolutely. I think a lot of folks around here will be surprised if she does not end up at Stanford. The next question would be - how long does she run for them before she turns pro?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bad hammy
              The next question would be - how long does she run for them before she turns pro?
              Contrary to almost ALL the other early pro signings, which I agreed with, she SHOULD stay 4 years and run NCAA. A pro career throws you to the lions. If she's in this for the long haul (till 30, let's say), she could use the 'sheltering' a college environment provides. If, however, she runs 4:00 for the 1500, she has my permission to bail !! :wink:

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Marlow
                Have you never sent an athlete to an Ivy? They pay handsomely and then just cook the books. We've sent many, and despite their families' wealth, they all got a more than generous 'need-based' scholarships. :wink:
                Is it the schools or the parents who are cooking the books? There are ways to convert assets that are counted in the standard needs calculation into assets that are not. To me, this is just plain wrong, but there are counselors out there who are showing people how to do it, and some folks do just that.

                I have the impression that all of the Ivies get their needs info from a single source, based on a standard form that the parents must complete. Once they get that info, the schools use it determining how much scholarship money a particular student should get. One of the relevant factors, of course, is how much is available. But the Ivies all have large endowments and probably have more scholarship funds available than many other schools.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tandfman
                  Is it the schools or the parents who are cooking the books? There are ways to convert assets that are counted in the standard needs calculation into assets that are not. To me, this is just plain wrong, but there are counselors out there who are showing people how to do it, and some folks do just that.

                  I have the impression that all of the Ivies get their needs info from a single source, based on a standard form that the parents must complete. Once they get that info, the schools use it determining how much scholarship money a particular student should get. One of the relevant factors, of course, is how much is available. But the Ivies all have large endowments and probably have more scholarship funds available than many other schools.
                  The Ivies do as they wish when it comes to 'need-based' scholarships.

                  As the wrestling coach of a certain Ivy told a parent of ours,
                  "X University only gives 'need-based' scholarships, and right now we NEED a 189-pound wrestler."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    Have you never sent an athlete to an Ivy?
                    Is that a shot? If so, obviously you know very little about our high school.

                    Our pipeline for our track kids with that type of school is Vanderbilt.


                    They pay handsomely and then just cook the books. We've sent many, and despite their families' wealth, they all got a more than generous 'need-based' scholarships. :wink:

                    I guarantee you it had more to do with their overall high school "resume" than it did their athletic prowess. I don't believe for a second an Ivy league school would "cook the books" to financially entice an otherwise lacking prospective student.
                    There are no strings on me

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bad hammy
                      Originally posted by gh
                      Given how completely unimportant running is relative to your life is as a whole, my advice would always be to get the best education you can, and have fun doing it.

                      I'd recommend that anyone who can get into Stanford (or Harvard, or whatever) and have somebody pay you to do it immediately leap at the opportunity.
                      Absolutely. I think a lot of folks around here will be surprised if she does not end up at Stanford.
                      Count me in that group.
                      There are no strings on me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by guru
                        Is that a shot? If so, obviously you know very little about our high school. Our pipeline for our track kids with that type of school is Vanderbilt.
                        Not at all - it was a straight-forward question. If you had, then I would have thought you knew there are ways for the Ivies to 'get' athletes. How would I know anything about your school? All I know is that it has great sprint relays, which I attribute to excellent coaching.

                        Originally posted by guru
                        I guarantee you it had more to do with their overall high school "resume" than it did their athletic prowess. I don't believe for a second an Ivy league school would "cook the books" to financially entice an otherwise lacking prospective student.
                        We get kids into Ivies athletically, when their academic credentials may be less than some non-athletic candidates. If they agree to attend, the financial aid package is sufficient to make it worth their while to go. By 'cook the books', I mean they make it work.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well hey...
                          So from reading all this stuff my 'un-informed, un-scientific and non-experienced opinions are:
                          1. Stay home. Good coach, history, program and location!. (But live in the dorms!!)
                          2. Stanford, we're all biased eh?
                          3. Oregon, history.

                          Not very convincing is it? :-)

                          Oh well....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gh
                            Given how completely unimportant running is relative to your life is as a whole, ....
                            .
                            What? In what sense was that opinion formed?
                            If someone runs from grade school, HS, college, Pros and then becomes a coach what say ye then?
                            I'd almost agree with that statement if the word "completely" wasn't included.
                            Enlighten me please.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              key question is what her upside will be and in what event...

                              doubt she's a 1500, as her sprint finish just doesn't do it...

                              5k or 10...suspect 5k initially, but longer term, 10k will suit her best...

                              suspect she wants a college environment to minimize amount of racing, and let her long term growth be the main object

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