The difficulty of dominance over an extended period…

[Figaro]

How difficult is it to dominate in track and field over an extended period of time? For me the sign of true dominance is not only being able to dominate in the regular competitions during particular years, but also being able to win all the major championships during that time AND being able to pull these things off over an extended period of time.
If we focus just on winning the major championships during the last five years you’ll notice that it doesn’t happen as frequently as you might have imagined:

ATHENS’04 - HELSINKI’05 - OSAKA’07 - BEIJING’08
MEN
100: Justin Gatlin - Justin Gatlin - Tyson Gay - Usain Bolt
200: Shawn Crawford - Justin Gatlin - Tyson Gay - Usain Bolt
400: Jeremy Wariner - Jeremy Wariner - Jeremy Wariner - LaShawn Merritt
800: Yury Borzakovsky - Rashid Ramzi - Alfred Kirwa Yego - Wilfred Bungei
1500: Hicham El Guerrouj - Rashid Ramzi - Bernard Lagat - Rashid Ramzi
5000: Hicham El Guerrouj - Benjamin Limo - Bernard Lagat - Kenenisa Bekele
10.000: Kenenisa Bekele - Kenenisa Bekele - Kenenisa Bekele - Kenenisa Bekele
Marathon: Stefano Baldini - Jaouad Gharib - Luke Kibet - Samuel Kamau Wanjiru
110H: Liu Xiang - Ladji Doucouré - Liu Xiang - Dayron Robles
400H: Félix Sánchez - Bershawn Jackson - Kerron Clement - Angelo Taylor
3000SC: Ezekiel Kemboi - Saïf Saaeed Shaheen - Brimin Kipruto - Brimin Kipruto
HJ: Stefan Holm - Yuri Krymarenko - Donald Thomas - Andrey Silnov
LJ: Dwight Phillips - Dwight Phillips - Irving Saladino - Irving Saladino
PV: Tim Mack - Rens Blom - Brad Walker - Steve Hooker
TJ: Christian Olsson - Walter Davis - Nelson Évora - Nelson Evora
SP: Yury Bilonog - Adam Nelson - Reese Hoffa - Tomasz Majewski
DT: Virgilijus Alekna - Virgilijus Alekna - Gerd Kanter - Gerd Kanter
HT: Koji Murofushi - Ivan Tikhon - Ivan Tikhon - Primoz Kozmus
JT: Andreas Thorkildsen - Andrus Värnik - Tero Pitkämäki - Andreas Thorkildsen
Decathlon: Roman Šebrle - Bryan Clay - Roman Šebrle - Bryan Clay
20kmW: Ivano Brugnetti - Jefferson Pérez - Jefferson Pérez - Valeriy Borchin
50kmW: Robert Korzeniowski - Sergey Kirdyapkin - Nathan Deakes - Alex Schwazer
4x100: GBR - FRA - USA - JAM
4x400: USA - USA - USA - USA

WOMEN
100: Yuliya Nesterenko - Lauryn Williams - Veronica Campbell - Shelly-Ann Fraser
200: Veronica Campbell - Allyson Felix - Allyson Felix - Veronica Campbell
400: Tonique Williams - Tonique Williams - Christine Ohuruogu - Christine Ohuruogu
800: Kelly Holmes - Zulia Calatayud - Janeth Jepkosgei - Pamela Jelimo
1500: Kelly Holmes - Tatyana Tomashova - Maryam Yusuf Jamal - Nancy Jebet Langat
5000: Meseret Defar - Tirunesh Dibaba - Meseret Defar - Tirunesh Dibaba
10.000: Xing Huina - Tirunesh Dibaba - Tirunesh Dibaba - Tirunesh Dibaba
Marathon: Mizuki Noguchi - Paula Radcliffe - Catherine Ndereba - Constantina Tomescu
100H: Joanna Hayes - Michelle Perry - Michelle Perry - Dawn Harper
400H: Fani Halkia - Yuliya Pechonkina - Jana Rawlinson - Melanie Walker
3000SC: X - Dorcus Inzikuru - Yekaterina Volkova - Gulnara Galkina Samitova
HJ: Yelena Slesarenko - Kajsa Bergqvist - Blanka Vlasic - Tia Hellebaut
LJ: Tatyana Lebedeva - Tianna Madison - Tatyana Lebedeva - Maurren Higa Maggi
PV: Yelena Isinbayeva - Yelena Isinbayeva - Yelena Isinbayeva - Yelena Isinbayeva
TJ: Françoise Mbango - Trecia Smith - Yargelis Savigne - Françoise Mbango
SP: Yumileidi Cumbá - Nadezhda Ostapchuk - Valerie Vili - Valerie Vili
DT: Natalya Sadova - Franka Dietzsch - Franka Dietzsch - Stephanie Brown Trafton
HT: Olga Kuzenkova - Olga Kuzenkova - Betty Heidler - Aksana Miankova
JT: Osleidys Menéndez - Osleidys Menéndez - Barbora Spotáková - Barbora Spotáková
Heptathlon: Carolina Klüft - Carolina Klüft - Carolina Klüft - Nataliya Dobrynska
20kmW: Athanasia Tsoumeleka - Olimpiada Ivanova - Olga Kaniskina - Olga Kaniskina
4x100: JAM - USA - USA - RUS
4x400: USA - RUS - USA - USA

So as you can see the rare quartet was only achieved by Kenenisa Bekele (in the 10.000m), Yelena Isinbayeva and the Men’s US 4x400 Relay.
Even a consecutive triple win was only accomplished by three of them: Klüft, Dibaba (in 10.000) and Wariner.
While on the other hand there were four different winners in 17 of the events.
This suggests that dominating for a longer period of time is a lot harder than one might imagine.

Indeed even in the history of track and field there were not that many athletes who have achieved a cycle of 4 or more consecutive major championships (that include two or more Olympics).

Consecutive cycles in a single event with at least 2 Olympic wins:*
-Haile Gebrselassie has a 6-Consecutive Cycle in the 10.000m (WC93-WC95-OG96-WC97-WC99-OG00)
-Michael Johnson has a 6-Consecutive Cycle in the 400m (WC93-WC95-OG96-WC97-WC99-OG00)
-Carl Lewis has a 5-Consecutive Cycle in the 100m (WC83-OG84-WC87-OG88-WC91)
.................and a 4-Consecutive Cycle in the Long Jump (WC83-OG84-WC87-OG88)
-Robert Korzeniowski has a 5-Consecutive Cycle in the 50km Walk (OG00-WC01-EC02-WC03-OG04)
-Kenenisa Bekele has a 5-Consecutive Cycle in the 10.000m (WC03-OG04-WC05-WC07-OG08)
-Yelena Isinbayeva has a 5-Consecutive Cycle in the Pole Vault (OG04-WC05-EC06-WC07-OG08)
-Daley Thompson has a 5-Consecutive Cycle in the Decathlon (OG80-EC82-WC83-OG84-EC86)
-Emil Zátopek has a 4-Consecutive Cycle in the 10.000m (OG48-EC50-OG52-EC54)
-Jan Železný has a 4-Consecutive Cycle in the Javelin (OG92-WC93-WC95-OG96)**
-Yuriy Sedykh has a 4-Consecutive Cycle in the Hammer Throw (OG76-EC78-OG80-EC82)
-Iolanda BalaÅŸ has a 4-Consecutive Cycle in the High Jump (EC58-OG60-EC62-OG64)
-Jozef Schmidt has a 4-Consecutive Cycle in the Triple Jump (EC58-OG60-EC62-OG64)

*Off course World Championships didn’t exist before 1983, but the European Championships were much more important back then.
** Železný won bronze at EC'94


So what do you think are the main reasons that long-term dominance in track and field is so difficult to achieve? Do they have a relatively short peak period? Are they more injury-prone than athletes in other sports? Is the pressure of being the favorite too heavy a burden? Is it just a case of being unlucky for some of them? Or is long-term dominance only reserved for the greats of the sport?

[Grasshopper]

You also have to note that MJ and HG's championships cycles included 2 extra WC's that didn't exist in the 80's for King Carl and others, when the WC was only every 4 years rather than every 2 years.

[sprintblox]

Re: The difficulty of dominance over an extended period…

So what do you think are the main reasons that long-term dominance in track and field is so difficult to achieve? Do they have a relatively short peak period? Are they more injury-prone than athletes in other sports? Is the pressure of being the favorite too heavy a burden? Is it just a case of being unlucky for some of them? Or is long-term dominance only reserved for the greats of the sport?

I don't think it is very different from other sports. Very few tennis players have won a Wimbledon singles title 5 times* in a row. Only 2 men have won the Tour de France 5 times in a row. Very few boxers hold on to a world title for 4 full years in a row while defending it at least once a year.


*I wrote 5 times, not 4, because in 4 years you can win 5 titles, like you would be able to do if a WC were held in the even-numbered years between Olympics.

[marknhj]

The most significant factor, in my opinion, are injuries and when they occur. Some great athletes are simply unlucky; either injury-prone or with the timing of an injury. Other dominant ones are just lucky in rarely experiencing them.

[Run DMC]

It is an EXTREMELY rare combination required to dominate in most sports, but especially T&F where the true limits of human performance are tested. It is also one of the largest participation sports of Earth, so the best really have to rise above the masses at all levels. Required:
1. Genetics
2. Drive to achieve and train
3. Ability to train hard and stay injury free
4. Good coaching.

BTW - Carl Lewis won almost every championship from '84-96 in the long Jump (4 OG Golds, 2 WC Golds, 1 Silver, +WRs). The only one he lost was lost to a WR jump. Almost all of that time he was at the top in 100/200. If that is not long term dominance, I don't know what is.

[Figaro]

You also have to note that MJ and HG's championships cycles included 2 extra WC's that didn't exist in the 80's for King Carl and others, when the WC was only every 4 years rather than every 2 years.

You're right, because of that Carl Lewis had his 5-Consecutive Cycle spread out over 9 years, the longest period of the ones listed, which makes it all the more impressive.

That's why I think people shouldn't prematurely jump the gun in declaring athletes who have dominated for just a very short period "the greatest of all time", without taking proper regard of the past legends, because if you count all the athletes who have dominated their event for one year or even two years, you could probably fill half a stadium, while the athletes who were able to do so over a much longer period are only a select few.

For the pre-1983 athletes it would also be harder to complete a cycle, because the EC's also occur only every four years.
But on the other hand it is still more difficult to defend your title 6 or 7 times in 7 years, than it is to defend it just four times in the same period, because there are more opportunities for the cycle to be broken. Like for instance Robert Korzeniowski could have had a 9-Consecutive Cycle if he had won the WC99, because he won 8 major championships in 9 years.
:arrow: (OG96-WC97-EC98-xx-OG00-WC01-EC02-WC03-OG04)

[26mi235]

Where is Oerter?

[rabalac]

[quote="Figaro
That's why I think people shouldn't prematurely jump the gun in declaring athletes who have dominated for just a very short period "the greatest of all time", without taking proper regard of the past legends, because if you count all the athletes who have dominated their event for one year or even two years, you could probably fill half a stadium, while the athletes who were able to do so over a much longer period are only a select few.

[/quote]

Point taken. In fact there is no human being who is the Greatest of ALL Time.

That aside, when a discussion regarding track and field achievements arises, logic says Carl Lewis' name must be featured prominently in any such discussion.

[Marlow]

That aside, when a discussion regarding track and field achievements arises, logic says Carl Lewis' name must be featured prominently in any such discussion.

I think Oerter is my GOAT GOAT. Considering all that went into his 4 wins, I find his story literally unbelievable. It it were a fiction story, nobody would buy it.

[Figaro]

Where is Oerter?

In my eyes Al Oerter was one of the greatest Olympians, but if you haven't noticed the list I gave was about athletes who have achieved cycles in between Olympic wins and since Oerter has only won one international championship outside of the Olympics, there doesn't really exist a cycle similar to the others mentioned. Furthermore on his own website it is said that he wasn't considered the favorite for any of the Olympic Games he participated in (although he probably could be considered the favorite for the 1964 Olympics if he hadn't been injured), which suggests that he mostly wasn't that dominant in the periods in between the Olympics. His story of overcoming the odds each time to win Olympic Golds is very admirable though and I'm sure any athlete who has just dominated during the regular season, but didn't manage to win the major championships would
swap careers with him in a heartbeat.

[26mi235]

It was 20 years between wins at the highest level for everyone else.

[Per Andersen]

No room here for the likes of Brumel, Sotomayor, Parry O'Brien, Ryun and Elliott.

I think you are defining dominance too narrowly.

[tandfman]

It was 20 years between wins at the highest level for everyone else.

Meaning?

[tandfman]

Robert Korzeniowski could have had a 9-Consecutive Cycle if he had won the WC99, because he won 8 major championships in 9 years.
:arrow: (OG96-WC97-EC98-xx-OG00-WC01-EC02-WC03-OG04)

But he never won any of the World Cup walks in that period. (In fact, in the 50km, I don't think he ever competed in the World Cup.)

[26mi235]

It was 20 years between wins at the highest level for everyone else.

Meaning?

Complete dominance by the standard he used to define the term.