Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

If Allen JOHNSON...

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Brazilian Track fan
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    Allen is the best hurdler of all times and I hope that he takes the gold medal in both, world indoors and olympics, to get the respect that he deserves.
    I think that after 2 world indoor golds, 5 world outdoors and a olympic games he should be more popular because there are few people in the states with better record than that

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    >And here are AJ's
    >Atlanta splits as per T&FN (and i have included Mark
    >Crear's in parentheses, to
    >show exactly how much ground AJ probably lost
    >coming off the last
    >hurdle):


    It should be noted that these splits were
    >taken with an eye-beam
    >that registered when they crossed the top of the
    >hurdle. They are not touch
    >down times.


    H1: 2.34 (2.35)
    H2: 3.38
    >(3.38)
    H3: 4.39 (4.37)
    H4: 5.36
    >(5.39)
    H5: 6.32 (6.39)
    H6: 7.30
    >(7.41)
    H7: 8.30 (8.46)
    H8: 9.33 (9.47)
    H9:
    >10.36 (10.51)
    H10: 11.28
    >(11.56)
    110m: 12.95 (13.09)


    looking at those splits,there is quite clearly a typo of the 10th hurdle time (11.28s). if you subtract the 9th hurdle time of 10.36s,you get 0.92s which is impossible - i don't believe a split between hurdles has ever been recorded faster than 0.97s.
    using an idealised model,his splits from 5th hurdle onwards could have been ideally ~

    6.32, 7.32, 8.33, 9.33, 10.34, 11.35s

    his time at top of 10th hurdle would at quickest have been 11.35 ( it's only a model i use & nowhere near foolproof,but i think it is OK to within 0.01 - 0.02s either side).

    trouble is trying to work out the run-in from last hurdle to tape - that needs more work.
    however for a guesstimate you assume he had same run-in time as Crear (i assume he didn't hit last hurdle !) of 13.09 - 11.56 = 1.53s,
    you get 11.35 + 1.53 =

    12.88s

    (this of course depends on what you want to use for his run-in: if you believe he was always quicker than Crear off the last hurdle,than maybe 12.85 is more likely,but 12.81 sounds a bit too quick)

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    >Or......maybe you were just referring to the correct splits and were indeed
    >talking about a separate race.


    Also, i'm curious, what are your thoughts
    >on the Olympic 12.95 run? Do you agree with my conclusions about the ~12.81,
    >or do you see things differently. I'd love to hear your opinion.

    i made an error: i was referring to his trials of 12.92 (not 12.93 - all those 12.92's & 12.93's get confusing !) - that one i make 12.83 - 12.85 at best

    i'm not sure about the 12.95 final,because splits are at top of hurdle,whereas PJ's one's are at touch-down - we'll have to look at them & see what comes out (shouldn't be hard - i'll try & see what i get,when i've got some time) - but his trials already show he was capable of 12.83 - 12.85,so a quicker time is obviously possible for him

    Leave a comment:


  • BisonHurdler
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    Or......maybe you were just referring to the correct splits and were indeed talking about a separate race.


    Also, i'm curious, what are your thoughts on the Olympic 12.95 run? Do you agree with my conclusions about the ~12.81, or do you see things differently. I'd love to hear your opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • BisonHurdler
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    Hmmmmm........perhaps there is some confusion here (either on my part, or otherwise), but the splits i gave for AJ were for his Olympic Final (12.95) gold medal. Incidentally, his trials final was 12.92, not 12.93.

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    from the splits, i get an ultimate figure of 12.83 - 12.85 if AJ had run the '96 trials race (12.93) as close to perfect as possible

    however soberingly, jackson's 7.30 does come out somewhere in the 12.80 - 12.82 range! (if he could have maintained that fantastic speed as well as theoretically possible from beyond 60m to 110m - but then again,jackson's strength was his start & pickup & not his close - this was weaker compared,so he may have drifted down to mid 12.8's in actuality)

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    This is always a tough one for me...

    Kingdom: Tough competitor, 2-time Champion (although one could argue Foster "lost" that '84 race vs. Kingdom "winning" it), totally dominant during his era.

    Colin Jackson: World Record Holder (12.91). Nuff said. Well...actually 7.30 for 60mH. Now that's truly something to ponder.

    Allen Johnson: He's definitely The Man for this era. His championships and stats speak for themselves. Unfortuantely, I think the media and TFN have done him a disservice by ranking Mark Crear ahead of him. As if!

    Nehemiah: Wow! You guys gotta remember that he quit track and field in his prime. 12.93 in 1981! This was at a time before super tracks, nutritional supplements or specialized spikes. In fact, he ran that time after coming off surgery on his heel. This guy was something special. I think I remember reading an article where Wilbur Ross felt Skeets touchdown times had him approaching 12.79 in a perfect race. Nasty!!!!

    My guess, Nehemiah wins 1980 Olympics if the U.S doesn't boycott and wins the 1984 Olympics in an Olympic Record. Of course, maybe Kingdom, Colin and Allen run even faster if Nehemiah's world record approaches what Ross predicted.

    With that being said, I'll be pulling for Allen this summer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    One thing on the Nehemiah vs Johnson fastest times, I have read that tall hurdlers don't really want a tail wind. Blows them into the hurdles. At the time of Skeets 12.93, there was some talk that the slight headwind was actually about perfect. On the blowing into hurdles, see the classic photo of Greg Foster taking the hurdle out. I think that was NCAA at Illinois, with an over 2.0 wind. Skeets won, as always in that duel. Charles Foster on the other hand, was short, and the wind would probably help him in races.

    Leave a comment:


  • tafnut
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    I was a huge Skeets fan and thought I would go to my grave insisting he was the best ever, but AJ has converted me and made me a True Believer. AJ, one more time, baby.
    {Skeets, I still love you, man.)

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    soory,typo in pierce's stats - the final time is of course 12.94

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    More of PJ's stats: the WR race of jackson:

    "I have found in my papers my analyse from tapes for Stuttgart'93 race. I have updated my old split times checking again the video to be more accurate:

    RT - 0.122
    01H - 02.53 (2.40)
    02H - 03.54 (1.01)
    03H - 04.53 (0.99)
    04H - 05.51 (0.98)
    05H - 06.49 (0.98)
    06H - 07.48 (0.99)
    07H - 08.48 (1.00)
    08H - 09.49 (1.01)
    09H - 10.51 (1.02)
    10H - 11.53 (1.03)
    FIN - 12.91 (1.37)"

    & some more:

    "Time has let me check at last my tapes for Atlanta Trials 110mH:

    I don't have the RT for those races, maybe they are in my 96 L'Équipe newspapers but i haven't got them with me:

    Allen JOHNSON
    RT - ???
    01H - 02.50 (???) (note Pierce 2.48 before fell !)
    02H - 03.52 (1.02)
    03H - 04.51 (0.99)
    04H - 05.49 (0.98)
    05H - 06.47 (0.98)
    06H - 07.44 (0.97)
    07H - 08.44 (1.00)
    08H - 09.45 (1.01)
    09H - 10.48 (1.03)
    10H - 11.53 (1.05)
    FIN - 12.92 (1.39)


    Jack PIERCE
    RT - ???
    01H - 02.57 (???)
    02H - 03.59 (1.02)
    03H - 04.60 (1.01)
    04H - 05.62 (1.02)
    05H - 06.59 (0.97)
    06H - 07.58 (0.99)
    07H - 08.57 (0.99)
    08H - 09.56 (0.99)
    09H - 10.55 (0.99)
    10H - 11.58 (1.03)
    FIN - 12.91 (1.36)"

    it's good to get all the stats out in 1 go & thus we can try & have a go at analysing them at our leisure

    Leave a comment:


  • BisonHurdler
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    Thanks eldrick!

    I had just wandered over to the IAAF forums and found that very thread, but i'm definitely interested to check out those links now.

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    And here are AJ's
    >Atlanta splits as per T&FN (and i have included Mark Crear's in parentheses, to
    >show exactly how much ground AJ probably lost coming off the last
    >hurdle):


    It should be noted that these splits were taken with an eye-beam
    >that registered when they crossed the top of the hurdle. They are not touch
    >down times.


    H1: 2.34 (2.35)
    H2: 3.38 (3.38)
    H3: 4.39 (4.37)
    H4: 5.36
    >(5.39)
    H5: 6.32 (6.39)
    H6: 7.30 (7.41)
    H7: 8.30 (8.46)
    H8: 9.33 (9.47)
    H9:
    >10.36 (10.51)
    H10: 11.28 (11.56)
    110m: 12.95 (13.09)



    Basically, it
    >appears as if AJ hitting hurdle 10 cut his lead exactly in half, from .28 to
    >.14 seconds. If we suppose that he closes similarly to Crear without hitting
    >that last hurdle, it could be estimated that AJ would've run ~12.81.

    It
    >should also be noted (for what it's worth) that AJ almost doubled his lead from
    >H9 to H10 (.15 to .28).

    great splits ! it'll take some time to chew over them

    some stats PJ provided on IAAF board:

    "10 hurdles (1.067m)
    start -> 1st hurdle = 13.72m
    10 yards between each hurdles (9.144m)
    last hurdle -> finish 14.02m

    I have studied some of those races years ago, i don't know where i have put them I don’t have time to search! To be true, i have analysed much more 100m hurdles than 110m hurdles as i concentrate generally on women's events.

    I give you 2 analyses made by IAAF biomechanicians for Roger Kingdom in Seoul'88 and Allen Johnson Athens'97, 2 of the fastest races ever. (+ indicates hit hurdle)

    Allen JOHNSON
    RT 0.128
    01H 02.56 2.44
    02H 03.56 1.00 +
    03H 04.54 0.98
    04H 05.54 1.00 +
    05H 06.52 0.98
    06H 07.54 1.02 +
    07H 08.52 0.98
    08H 09.57 1.05 +
    09H 10.59 1.02
    10H 11.62 1.03
    110 12.93 1.31
    Altough this race looked cleaner than his Atlanta race, Johnson’s rhythm unit was very unsteady while in Atlanta his speed curve was normal (an peaked at 0.96 for his fastest unit, probably the fastest ever). In Athens it could have much more faster than that 12.93, assuming that he had three 0.98 units, something very exceptional. In this kind of race, a time around 12.85 is possible.

    Roger KINGDOM
    RT 0.142
    01H 02.55 2.41
    02H 03.60 1.05
    03H 04.61 1.01
    04H 05.61 1.00
    05H 06.61 1.00 +
    06H 07.59 0.98
    07H 08.59 1.00
    08H 09.59 1.00
    09H 10.62 1.03
    10H 11.64 1.02
    110 12.98 1.34
    I don’t have this race on tape, scientific analyse says that he hit only one hurdle, a rare feat for Kingdom! However, a very steady pace, a more or less perfect race."

    note,these splits are at "touch-down"

    the link to the whole article is here:

    http://www.iaaf.org/community/forums/Li ... icID=12414

    here is another topic you may be estimated in:

    http://www.iaaf.org/community/forums/Li ... icID=13559

    (ignore the maths bit - that is of little interest,but the conclusions are interesting)

    Leave a comment:


  • BisonHurdler
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    Oh, I know altitude and wind matter. I'm just saying, even though "intrinsically" Skeets' time is "faster", the fact remains that he did not run faster.

    Just an issue of semantics really.


    And here are AJ's Atlanta splits as per T&FN (and i have included Mark Crear's in parentheses, to show exactly how much ground AJ probably lost coming off the last hurdle):


    It should be noted that these splits were taken with an eye-beam that registered when they crossed the top of the hurdle. They are not touch down times.


    H1: 2.34 (2.35)
    H2: 3.38 (3.38)
    H3: 4.39 (4.37)
    H4: 5.36 (5.39)
    H5: 6.32 (6.39)
    H6: 7.30 (7.41)
    H7: 8.30 (8.46)
    H8: 9.33 (9.47)
    H9: 10.36 (10.51)
    H10: 11.28 (11.56)
    110m: 12.95 (13.09)



    Basically, it appears as if AJ hitting hurdle 10 cut his lead exactly in half, from .28 to .14 seconds. If we suppose that he closes similarly to Crear without hitting that last hurdle, it could be estimated that AJ would've run ~12.81.

    It should also be noted (for what it's worth) that AJ almost doubled his lead from H9 to H10 (.15 to .28).



    Just some interesting stats.

    Leave a comment:


  • eldrick
    replied
    Re: If Allen JOHNSON...

    But, the facts remain, regardless of wind,
    >altitude, etc, AJ ran faster. He had the faster average speed. Not by much,
    >but it's still true.



    By the way, if we want to talk about
    >woulda/coulda/shoulda, AJ would've easily broken 12.90 and probably would've
    >been right around 12.80 in Atlanta without smashing that last hurdle.


    so you do not think wind & altitude matter?

    do you believe tim's 9.78 (+2m/s) is superior to mo's 9.79(+0.1m/s) in terms of intrinsic value?

    BTW,i am not coulda/shoulda/wouldaying, all i did was to try to ascribe an intrinsic value to these performances,to judge which would be the best under standardised conditions of zero wind/zero altitude

    i would be grateful if you could post AJ's hurdle-by-hurdle splits in atlanta ( PJ on the IAAF board has got some also - it will be great to compare them!)

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X