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2008’s No. 1 World Rankers

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  • #16
    The bottom line is that athletes should not be rewarded for not competing, but frequently are.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Marlow
      The bottom line is that athletes should not be rewarded for not competing, but frequently are.
      Correct.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Marlow
        Originally posted by trackhead
        Keitany #1 in the 1500m after he fails to make the Olympics?

        Why is it that, for the purposes of rankings, it's better to fail to make your Olympic team than to make it and not perform up to expectations at the big show?
        Totally agree. He did not face the challenge that all the other elites did. In the odds-making of him against the Oly field, he'd have been 10:1 at best.

        Reminds me of the time Cantwell got injured half-way thru the season, didn't contend the main brunt of the Euro season and still ended up #1. No way.
        Nice analysis... too bad it's not based on fact.

        Cantwell finished 4th at the OT and simply didn't throw again. No injury that I know of.

        So why did he end up No. 1? Not necessarily in order:

        •Because other than that meet he was undefeated

        •Because he had the 5 longest meets of the year.

        •Because he had almost a meter's (!) lead on the rest of the throwers on the yearly list.

        •Because he won the year's No. 2 meet, the World Indoor

        •Because Olympic champ Belonog was 8th at both the World Indoor and GP Final (aka WAF)

        •Because he was 4–1 over OT champ Adam Nelson, who was 2nd at both OG and GPF.

        It was a no-brainer of a choice.

        (having said that.... yes, absolutely--and unfortunately--there are times when you can enhance your Ranking by stopping competing) (but I know no way to fix it...... it's imperfect however you go, but we think our current system reflects the best imperfection)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by kuha
          Originally posted by nevetsllim
          I'm pleased Wanjiru got the no.1 spot in the men's marathon.
          I'm not surprised at this. However, I find it distinctly odd that Geb's WR beat out Wanjiru's OG run in the performance of the year category. The logic in deciding the marathon rankings--that the OG race was intrinsically superior, all things considered, to the WR run--seems to have been turned on its head in the performance category, no?.
          So what am I missing here?

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          • #20
            Wanjiru as No. 1 was a decision made after careful consideration/argumentation by our World Rankings panel.

            Geb with higher POY rating was a choice made by vote of five times as many people.

            Two different groups.

            (and the second one got it wrong :-) )

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            • #21
              Originally posted by gh
              Wanjiru as No. 1 was a decision made after careful consideration/argumentation by our World Rankings panel.

              Geb with higher POY rating was a choice made by vote of five times as many people.

              Two different groups.

              (and the second one got it wrong :-) )
              Or the first...who knows? But it is clear that these two votes are in fundamental opposition...thanks...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Marlow
                the Brits argue that Ohuruogu's loss after the Games is irrelevant. I tend to agree. She had nothing left to prove and her opposition had plenty.
                I have to agree, but for a slightly different reason: Sanya's fastest time this year was 49.74, and from what I know, she didn't run quite as many 400s as she did in 2007 or 2006. If she had finished 2nd in Beijing to Ohuruogu, she might have made a case; but she finished 3rd, and the people ahead of her rarely broke 50.00 (Shericka's 49.69 was her first).

                This scenario is almost similar to what happened to Butch Reynolds after finishing 3rd in the 1987 World Champs to Thomas Schönlebe and innocent Egbunike. He ended up losing the number 1 ranking to Schönlebe despite running a world-leading 44.10 at the NCAAs and winning a few other races on the circuit.

                By this standard, I would have to give it to Big O., even though she hardly ran that many races herself, and the fact that her 49.61 was her only sub-50.00 of the season (and if I'm correct the 2nd-slowest yearly WL this decade). I have a rule of thumb which weighs an Olympic performance as 4 or 5 times that of a 1st-tier Grand Prix/Golden League performance.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by CookyMonzta
                  This scenario is almost similar to what happened to Butch Reynolds after finishing 3rd in the 1987 World Champs to Thomas Schönlebe and innocent Egbunike. He ended up losing the number 1 ranking to Schönlebe despite running a world-leading 44.10 at the NCAAs . . .
                  Reynolds ran his 44.10 at the Jesse Owens meet in Columbus in May, not at the NCAAs.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tandfman
                    Originally posted by CookyMonzta
                    This scenario is almost similar to what happened to Butch Reynolds after finishing 3rd in the 1987 World Champs to Thomas Schönlebe and innocent Egbunike. He ended up losing the number 1 ranking to Schönlebe despite running a world-leading 44.10 at the NCAAs . . .
                    Reynolds ran his 44.10 at the Jesse Owens meet in Columbus in May, not at the NCAAs.
                    My bad. I haven't looked at my old magazines in a very long time. Nevertheless, that 3rd-place showing at the World Champs cost him.

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                    • #25
                      You can't compare '87 and today. The "GP Circuit" was only in its infancy and there was no such thing as the WAF as we have it today to end things up. And the EastBloc athletes, in general, didn't compete much in the big invitationals. Thus it was that the OG/WC had far more importance than they do today. Schönlebe was less exposed,but he ended up undefeated while Reynolds lost 3 times (two of them 3rds). The one head-to-head meeting in the biggest race of the year had to be the decider.

                      As the verbiage of the time said, "our selectors were from unanimous in their thinking on this one...."

                      I suspect a Rome silver might have been about enough to tip it back Butch's way.

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                      • #26
                        So this suggests to me that in the future TFN will rate this IAAF sanctioned, artificially significant, end of season dollar beanfeast, which seldom bears any relation to the Championship events for that year ,but has now acquired an importance that flatters it's existence, exaggerating it's position in the accepted hierarchy of the sport and placing it far closer in relevance to the challenge of winning Gold Medals than it traditionally has a right to have? Sorry, but thats not the way i want the sport to go.
                        If Nikolai or Nadia no-name avoid injuries in tennis and somehow win the end of season Masters events in the absence of the world's top players do they get the plaudits that are usually bestowed on those players who have the class to win the majors? Do they heck as like!
                        If this is the case then watch out for a new breed of athlete, one who will pick up some early season points in the first GP meets, then recieve an injury which leads to them avoiding that summer's Championships [and subsequent testing] only to re-appear in the last few weeks of a season to mop up the readies. The WAF point system is just made for athletes like these and rewards them, rather than the ones we used to admire most of all, the ones who won the big Championships.

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                        • #27
                          keep your pants on

                          if they run 9.70/10.60 , 19.60/21.60, 3'26/3'50...

                          anytime of year in any established meet

                          it's good for go...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gh
                            You can't compare '87 and today. The "GP Circuit" was only in its infancy and there was no such thing as the WAF as we have it today to end things up. And the EastBloc athletes, in general, didn't compete much in the big invitationals. Thus it was that the OG/WC had far more importance than they do today. Schönlebe was less exposed,but he ended up undefeated while Reynolds lost 3 times (two of them 3rds). The one head-to-head meeting in the biggest race of the year had to be the decider.

                            As the verbiage of the time said, "our selectors were from unanimous in their thinking on this one...."

                            I suspect a Rome silver might have been about enough to tip it back Butch's way.
                            Interesting. My memory ain't as sharp as it used to be. Like I said, I haven't looked at my 1987 T&FN collection in quite a while. I thought Butch lost one other time that year.

                            GP or not, I still use the rule of thumb giving the Olympics 4 or 5 times the weight of any major Euro meet. Ohuruogu probably hurt herself by not running in more meets. But then again, it wouldn't have been that much different from Schönlebe not getting to run much in the West. As a matter of fact, I look at it the same way as if either one of them were out injured for the better part of the summer, and then came back to win the big one against the obvious favorites. Nevertheless, I thought it would be close between her and Sanya in the final rankings. Be that as it may, based on what I saw from this season, as compared to the last few seasons, I still would have given it to Ohuruogu, because Sanya's 2008 season didn't exactly compare to her 2007 and 2006 seasons, not when you fail to win the big one and fail to run fast enough on more occasions (or get the WL) to overcome such a big loss.

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                            • #29
                              Do they heck as like?

                              What the hell is that?

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                              • #30
                                Are the 10-deep event-by-event rankings available on-line, or will they be soon - Garry?

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