Terence 7.37i !

[eldrick]

apologies if mentioned earlier, but this deserves a topic on it's own

he's slashed that ole 7.43pb ( which was a semi-joke anyway for a guy with ~ 6.50/10.1 speed anyway )

he's got to be looking at < 12.9 this year & real threat to the wr ( to be honest he shouda been a threat to jacko's 7.30wr for past few years )

[tlb747]

And with the starts he gets, I would not be surprised about him threatening the world record either. But for now, he needs to get to Berlin first, then win the event. I would also like to see him with some gold medals in the next World Outdoor Championships to keep up with the silver medal he has (not just Summer Olympics).

[skiboo]

I cannot see him beating Robles, no way, no how.

[eldrick]

robles is far from superman

if 2T puts his race together, no one & i repeat no-one will catch him

[BCBaroo]

Not like this isn't one of the more interesting events in the world right now.

Liu - come back?

David Oliver - great year last year - can he improve on it?

Trammel - fired up and dedicated.

[Smoke]

Robles isn't Superman but he is 6'5" and can outrun TT to hurdle one. He doesn't have to catch TT. That's the challenge Robles brings to the table.

The hurdles will be vicious as usual.

[eldrick]

then his 6'5 woud also get him to 60-flat in 6.50 to beat 2T...

[Per Andersen]

then his 6'5 woud also get him to 60-flat in 6.50 to beat 2T...

Have you forgotten those pesky sticks!

I don't think Robles is 6'5" Closer to 6'3" I would think.

[eldrick]

you missed the point

2T can run 6.50 despite whatever height he is - dayron woud be lucky to crack 6.6 - therefore, if both get their best starts, it's unlikely 2T woud be trailing at 1st hurdle

height has no relevance as long as your aren't a midget - 2T now has 7.37 to go with his 12.95 - therefore he's already demonstrated his height is perfectly adequate to break the WRs ( for the record, he's 6'2 )

it has been criminal that the fastest flat guy we have probably ever seen ( including skeets & AJ ) has lumbered at 7.4+ until this advanced age, when on paper, improving technique shouda got him at/near jacko's WRs early this decade rather than being stuck at an incredulous ~ 13.10 - 13.15 from '00 - '04 !!!

time is not on his side at 30y, but he can pick up a global title & perhaps, even more importantly, bury the record in the 12.80 - 12.85 range, which might put it beyond the grasp of any of these guys & leave a legacy

[Per Andersen]

you missed the point

2T can run 6.50 despite whatever height he is - dayron woud be lucky to crack 6.6 - therefore, if both get their best starts, it's unlikely 2T woud be trailing at 1st hurdle

height has no relevance as long as your aren't a midget - 2T now has 7.37 to go with his 12.95 - therefore he's already demonstrated his height is perfectly adequate to break the WRs ( for the record, he's 6'2 )

it has been criminal that the fastest flat guy we have probably ever seen ( including skeets & AJ ) has lumbered at 7.4+ until this advanced age, when on paper, improving technique shouda got him at/near jacko's WRs early this decade rather than being stuck at an incredulous ~ 13.10 - 13.15 from '00 - '04 !!!

time is not on his side at 30y, but he can pick up a global title & perhaps, even more importantly, bury the record in the 12.80 - 12.85 range, which might put it beyond the grasp of any of these guys & leave a legacy

You are assuming Trammell will neccessarily beat Robles to the first hurdle because he is a better sprinter.
The hurdles start is different from the regular sprint start. You have to make sure that 7 steps fit in to the first hurdle. You might have to set the blocks differently to accomplish this.

I never commented on Trammell's height. I just noted that I thought Robles was 6-3 rather than 6-5.

[eldrick]

there's little that can be varied in a flat-sprint either - ben johnson's win in '88 was described as 47-steps of power, not 48 as he wouda been mincing steps & slower than 9.79 & not 46 as he wouda overstrided & lost balance & slower than 9.79

flat or hurdle, every 10m for a guy like 2T is almost equally important & for a far quicker flat guy, his 7 steps are going to be quicker - his slowing occurs at ~ 5th hurdle time, not at the start

[Per Andersen]

there's little that can be varied in a flat-sprint either - ben johnson's win in '88 was described as 47-steps of power, not 48 as he wouda been mincing steps & slower than 9.79 & not 46 as he wouda overstrided & lost balance & slower than 9.79

flat or hurdle, every 10m for a guy like 2T is almost equally important & for a far quicker flat guy, his 7 steps are going to be quicker - his slowing occurs at ~ 5th hurdle time, not at the start

I misspoke. 7 steps are true for Robles but not for Trammell who uses 8 to the first hurdle.
I'm not going to go into the various differences between a regular sprint start and the start of the hurdles but they are considerable. Trammell has to get upright much earlier in a hurdles race + he has to shorten his 8th stride for the take-off.
These strides are much more controlled than in a sprint race. There is also the block set-up. Since Trammell is big and fast and uses 8 strides he very likely has to set up his blocks behind Robles's blocks (further from the start line). This stuff negates Trammell's ability to run a faster flat 60 or 100 than Robles.

[eldrick]

you are making the mistaken assumption that to have differing number of strides necessarily means you are slower to 1st hurdle

liu takes 8 strides, same as 2T, is ~ same height & runs 12.88 v 12.95

speed = frequency * stride length

if dayron has longer stride, then 2T has better frequency, which can still make you faster depending on it's number

the extra step maybe the one that helps give him the extra drive for that devastating start which helps him run 6.50 on the flat

his blocks aren't further back then dayron - there is no need for him to set his blocks further back - his stride length with an extra step may be perfectly in keeping with getting a quicker start

there is also no need for 2T to get "upright" sooner - he is quite tall enough at 6'2 to keep his head down as long as he wants ( mo greene & marion style ) & clear the 1st hurdle with comfort

[Per Andersen]

you are making the mistaken assumption that to have differing number of strides necessarily means you are slower to 1st hurdle



there is also no need for 2T to get "upright" sooner - he is quite tall enough at 6'2 to keep his head down as long as he wants ( mo greene & marion style ) & clear the 1st hurdle with comfort

No, I never assumed that, I just corrected myself and pointed out that they use a different number of strides.

Of course Trammell's head comes up much sooner than in a sprint start. It's up after about 4 strides. Watch the tapes, YouTube or whatever. They all do. It's a Hurdles race. That's what you simply can't acknowledge.

[eldrick]

No, I never assumed that, I just corrected myself and pointed out that they use a different number of strides

which as simple formula quoted shows, number of stides is irrelevant

Of course Trammell's head comes up much sooner than in a sprint start. It's up after about 4 strides. Watch the tapes, YouTube or whatever. They all do. It's a Hurdles race. That's what you simply can't acknowledge.

so, if they all have to bring up their head sooner, then a 6.50 guy will be affected as will a 6.60+ guy like dayron

unless you can show dayron's head-raising slows him less than 2T, you have no leg to stand on - e g it affects 2T by 10% but dayron by only 5% ?!